As a trans person who has a really side eye opinion of the fandom (after being physically/psychologically abused, viciously, by some high profile people in the fandom) please do not make this comparison. It's gross. People can be queer/queer positive and still have big problems with this fandom.
A lot of furry is problematic and there is a big lack of accountability/responsibility in furry spaces and it's not wrong for people to be wary of it.
Firstly, I am coming from the perspective of someone who was active in the fandom for several years, got sexually/psychologically abused, and had an artist use their clout to silence me. I have met several other victims who have suffered similarly. This kind of thing has been a problem in the community for decades, especially because the content appeals to young and curious lgbt people.
I know my experience paints my opinion of the fandom.
In my opinion it's a fandom that glorifies parasocialism and emotional disassociation. Diverting emotional responsibility through avatars is the best way I can describe it.
If ppl want to have a furry community here IDGAF because I won't participate, but I couldn't help but be annoyed when I saw "disliking the furry fandom" equated to "hating queer people".
"in my opinion [being trans] glorifies parasocialism and emotional disassociation. diverting emotional responsibility through [gender reassignment] is the best way I can describe it."
like, i empathize that youve had bad personal experiences, been there, but what youre talking about isnt some intrinsic part of folks being furry, and the argument is literally straight out of the anti-lgbt play book.
Making a furry avatar that can be slipped on/off and changed at any at any time is in no way similar to living in a trans body and I'm really grossed out by this.
i pointed out the absolutely inane usage of chud talking points that equate any form of lgbtq as being a mental illness that is intrinsically abusive and bad for everyone involved.
the comment was “it … glorifies parasocialism and emotional disassociation” or, in other words, that the entire community is a mental illness.
Yeah, I don't think xxtrash meant it this way, but usually when I see people say this stuff about furries, the implication (whether or not stated outright) is "and this is why it's okay to harass them/dox them/encourage them to kill themselves."
Yeah sorry I should have clarified it better. It's hard for me to verbalize what the issue is. It's like, there are big artists who market themselves as a character, but also as themselves? So you get people who fawn over a certain character, and then the artists use that "in" as a way to approach people for abuse. When it's a fandom made up of people having curated identities the lines between boundaries become blurred. As expression I have no issue with it, but as a fandom with conventions, merchandise, and where people literally market themselves as a form of product- things get fucked up.
It needs to be said that The commodification of the social media individual in this late stage capitalism is pretty much the same thing; fandoms just got there first. But you will find the same parasocial toxicity among streamers , youtubers, instagram celebrities, hell i'm not even going to attempt to open the weird ass can of worms that the bodybuilding community tends to be...
criticizing people for choosing to be part of a community, regardless of how reasonable or unreasonable that criticism is, is not the same thing as criticizing someone for being LGBT+
telling people that their sexual proclivities are a mental illness, and using that as an excuse to excoriate them, regardless of whether theyre a furry or gay or a bdsm afficionado, or transbian, etc is wrong.
its the same puritanical argument about how those things are bad for the people involved.
i am not saying being trans and being furry are the same.
i am pointing out how disgusting the argument that furries are all mentally ill is.
That is not what that means. Saying that a particular community glorifies certain behaviors and ways of thinking is not the same thing as saying that LGBT+ people all have mental illness, and you are a deeply disgusting person for trying to equate them. Fuck you, you piece of shit.
"a lot of [big gay] is problematic and there is a big lack of accountability/responsibility in [big gay] spaces and it’s not wrong for people to be wary of it."
moral panic about the big gay intensifies
yeah, obviously if other spaces are problematic and lack accountability, the correct response is to do better :banana-duck:
As a trans person who has a really side eye opinion of the fandom (after being physically/psychologically abused, viciously, by some high profile people in the fandom) please do not make this comparison. It's gross. People can be queer/queer positive and still have big problems with this fandom.
A lot of furry is problematic and there is a big lack of accountability/responsibility in furry spaces and it's not wrong for people to be wary of it.
What do you mean?
Is that a good reason to create a better space here?
Firstly, I am coming from the perspective of someone who was active in the fandom for several years, got sexually/psychologically abused, and had an artist use their clout to silence me. I have met several other victims who have suffered similarly. This kind of thing has been a problem in the community for decades, especially because the content appeals to young and curious lgbt people.
I know my experience paints my opinion of the fandom. In my opinion it's a fandom that glorifies parasocialism and emotional disassociation. Diverting emotional responsibility through avatars is the best way I can describe it.
If ppl want to have a furry community here IDGAF because I won't participate, but I couldn't help but be annoyed when I saw "disliking the furry fandom" equated to "hating queer people".
Sorry it came off that way. My mind just cynically jumped to 'yiff in hell' circlejerkers when I saw the downbears.
Understandable comrade, have a nice day!
"in my opinion [being trans] glorifies parasocialism and emotional disassociation. diverting emotional responsibility through [gender reassignment] is the best way I can describe it."
like, i empathize that youve had bad personal experiences, been there, but what youre talking about isnt some intrinsic part of folks being furry, and the argument is literally straight out of the anti-lgbt play book.
Making a furry avatar that can be slipped on/off and changed at any at any time is in no way similar to living in a trans body and I'm really grossed out by this.
then stop using the same argument against furries that gets used against trans people.
its just that easy
being furry is an aesthetic, for many of us it could represent an important or large part of our lives, but it is not the same. This is a bad take
i never said it was "the same."
i pointed out the absolutely inane usage of chud talking points that equate any form of lgbtq as being a mental illness that is intrinsically abusive and bad for everyone involved.
which is absolutely what the above argument is.
They didn't say that being a furry makes you abusive, just that the way the community exists creates a potential for abuse.
Idunno. Either way, since you're not equating the two experiences
"the potential for abuse is something to watch out for, so lets make sure the community is the best it can be" isnt what the comment was though.
the comment was "it ... glorifies parasocialism and emotional disassociation" or, in other words, that the entire community is a mental illness.
which is exactly what chuds say about all lgbtq communities.
thats not okay.
I agree with you there
Yeah, I don't think xxtrash meant it this way, but usually when I see people say this stuff about furries, the implication (whether or not stated outright) is "and this is why it's okay to harass them/dox them/encourage them to kill themselves."
Yeah sorry I should have clarified it better. It's hard for me to verbalize what the issue is. It's like, there are big artists who market themselves as a character, but also as themselves? So you get people who fawn over a certain character, and then the artists use that "in" as a way to approach people for abuse. When it's a fandom made up of people having curated identities the lines between boundaries become blurred. As expression I have no issue with it, but as a fandom with conventions, merchandise, and where people literally market themselves as a form of product- things get fucked up.
I'm really frustrated by this conversation.
It needs to be said that The commodification of the social media individual in this late stage capitalism is pretty much the same thing; fandoms just got there first. But you will find the same parasocial toxicity among streamers , youtubers, instagram celebrities, hell i'm not even going to attempt to open the weird ass can of worms that the bodybuilding community tends to be...
When you put it that way, it sounds perfectly reasonable.
dunno if itll make you feel less frustrated, but i agree with everything in this comment :100-com:
exactly.
Yeah, gross.
yeah, i agree, telling other people that their harmless sexual proclivities are a mental illness is pretty gross.
Uh huh.
Please someone add a block function to this Lemmy.
what the fuck is wrong with you
get some perspective
i have plenty of perspective. do you?
telling others that they are mentally ill like that is the chuddery basics of being anti-lgbtq
criticizing people for choosing to be part of a community, regardless of how reasonable or unreasonable that criticism is, is not the same thing as criticizing someone for being LGBT+
genuinely, what the fuck is wrong with you?
telling people that their sexual proclivities are a mental illness, and using that as an excuse to excoriate them, regardless of whether theyre a furry or gay or a bdsm afficionado, or transbian, etc is wrong.
its the same puritanical argument about how those things are bad for the people involved.
i am not saying being trans and being furry are the same.
i am pointing out how disgusting the argument that furries are all mentally ill is.
no one made that argument, dumbass
"it ... glorifies parasocialism and emotional disassociation. diverting emotional responsibility through avatars is the best way i can describe it."
xxtrash like a half dozen comments up this chain literally stating that the furry community is one big mental illness.
That is not what that means. Saying that a particular community glorifies certain behaviors and ways of thinking is not the same thing as saying that LGBT+ people all have mental illness, and you are a deeply disgusting person for trying to equate them. Fuck you, you piece of shit.
"a lot of [big gay] is problematic and there is a big lack of accountability/responsibility in [big gay] spaces and it’s not wrong for people to be wary of it."
moral panic about the big gay intensifies
yeah, obviously if other spaces are problematic and lack accountability, the correct response is to do better :banana-duck:
Is Big Gay ^TM like Big Tobacco or Big Pharma? Industrialized homosexuality?
yes.
thats why the big gay is problematic. capitalism ruining everything. even being gay with your dad.
Yes it's a fantastic reason, actually