Newacctidk's sister is right. One can have principles and still live in the real world. Dooming the Palestinians AND hundreds of other groups is called being callous, not principled.
Y'all lesser eviled yourselves in to genocide. I didn't condemn anyone. Democrats did. I've been trying to fight this shit my entire adult life. I've been fighting for decades. I've seen the loathing, the contempt, the hate in the eyes of nice, boring, middle income, fascist democrats. I always saw what you are but I didn't understand what I was seeing. I won't take the last step in to hell with you. I tried to stop this. You're on your own. God damn you all.
The IOF disguised soldiers as doctors so they could attack a hospital and execute three men they "declared" to be Hamas. They were wounded and in the hospital to receive medical care. It's hard to count the number of warcrimes the zionist entity commited just in that instance. Kamala has done nothing but state she will increase support. Israel gets support for committing warcrimes like using white phosporous - against civilians no less. Israel often bombs schools and hospitals.
Here's some facts about white phosphorous
It can burn even under water
It is ignited by contact with oxygen
White phosphorus reaches temperatures of 1,472 °F/800 °C. For comparison aluminum melts at 1,220 °F/660 °C
It causes deep and severe burns. It will penetrate through bone.
White phosphorus particles that have penetrated the skin, for example on shrapnel, starts to burn when the wound is opened and exposed to air. Your wounds will emanate with white and yellowish smoke. It will smell like garlic.
When it is on you, all you can do to smother the flame is to deprive it of oxygen. As soon as oxygen is reintroduced it will reignite. This means there is functionally no way of stopping it from burning you when it is on you.
Unless specialised personnel is present there's not much more to do than remove you from the place with white phosporous and hope there's not enough to burn you to death.
It sticks to you.
The smoke is toxic.
Inhalation of the smoke will make your throat scratchy. You will begin to cough. You will get headaches. Anything more than a brief inhalation and you will develop a lung oedema later on.
White phosporous is toxic in itself. Ingesting it (like if it is on a massive wound burned on you by white phosporous and it gets into your bloodstream) will lead to a litany of deadly malaises.
After it is used on you, libs will handwring about wether or not it was actually a war crime.
But Trump would be worse so all this is fine. I'm sure the concentration camps and mass graves would be worse under Trump because he'd tweet about them or something.
CW: SV
Trump would have even more palestinians systematically (be forced to engage in sexual relations) with dogs
Harris's goal is the extermination of every Palestinian in Gaza. She's going to end the suffering of Palestinians one Palestinian at a time until there are no Palestinians.
Liberals have spent a decade screaming at me about Uighur genocide, Ukraine genocide, Poland genocide, all sorts of Soviet genocide. I did a lot of reading. I know more than you. I know what is going to happen. I know how and why each action taken by the dog of NATO is being taken. I understand the kayfabe they're performing, using Bibi to soak up the hatred while they implement their final solution to the Palestinian question.
You Democrats could stop this. There are tens of millions of you. Many thousands who have access. A few dozen knives could bring this to an end in an evening. You could stop this and you won't.
Fuck... Biden had dogs that kept attacking people in the WH... SOMEBODY could have snuck one in that would attack him and nobody would have batted an eye. A real missed opportunity right there.
THEY ARE BEING PUT IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS AND BOMBED TO DEATH WHAT THE FUCK COULD MAKE IT WORSE, YOU FLAT ASS
My god please fucking just... Think. Goddammit, just say you don't give a fuck about brown people, at least be honest. There's no difference between republicans and democrats but at least the republicans have the decency not to tell the most bold faced lies.
Just say you're racist, just say you want them to die. We can drop this charade. This whole pretending isn't fooling anyone
The only groups that are dooming the Palestinians are the ones that you are in support of. You liberals at some point really need to unlock the ability to think critically and do some fucking reading about what your country does at international level, which don't worry I know it will never happen.
Yes I'm certain Kamala "the law is the law" Harris will do all she can to help the many people she's deported, just as soon as she's confirmed in her belief that there is no consequence for committing a genocide.
Surely voting for someone committing a genocide will only have the best of results for other marginalised groups she's already shown she has, at the very best, a neutral attitude towards.
Hey fuckface: The Dems are also persecuting those groups. The Dems were the ones that THIS YEAR cracked down on student protesters, yet I am to believe that they will somehow "protect democracy"? Literally insane. Actual doublethink.
Now here's also a novel concept: You do not support palestinians if you are murdering them. Saying you do something actually means fuck all. Thoughts and prayers might make you feel good, but that doesn't stop the children from being burned alive.
If I find out who you are and meet you, then I will stab you. This is an actionable threat.
Dooming the Palestinians guarantees the doom of the other groups you dumb fuck, are you seriously under the delusion that state institutions once wedded to the industrial mechanisms of genocide will simply set those tools aside because what? They just really, really, really, didn't like Palestinians and that's all?
The population control techniques of Israeli fascism are already in the text books of US law enforcement agencies, Israeli AI software that selects civilian families for slaughter will and have already been sold to the US military, the "right" of the US National Guard to mow down civilians has already been enshrined by executive order, IOF soldiers are literally stalking US campuses to dox and threaten any students who speak up......just where the fuck do you think this leading to
You're literally as delusional as a German in 1934 telling this friends that Hitler "will stop at the Jews, I promise" lmao get a fuckin grip you quisling
You're literally as delusional as a German in 1934 telling this friends that Hitler "will stop at the Jews, I promise" lmao get a fuckin grip you quisling
Many jewish people believed they would be left alone because they held prestiguous or important jobs.
The concentration camp was never the normal condition for the average gentile German. Unless one were Jewish, or poor and unemployed, or of active leftist persuasion or otherwise openly anti-Nazi, Germany from 1933 until well into the war was not a nightmarish place. All the “good Germans” had to do was obey the law, pay their taxes, give their sons to the army, avoid any sign of political heterodoxy, and look the other way when unions were busted and troublesome people disappeared.
Since many “middle Americans” already obey the law, pay their taxes, give their sons to the army, are themselves distrustful of political heterodoxy, and applaud when unions are broken and troublesome people are disposed of, they probably could live without too much personal torment in a fascist state — some of them certainly seem eager to do so.
- Michael Parenti. (1996). Fascism in a Pinstriped Suit
If there was a progressive candidate with a chance to win, I wouldn't vote for Harris. I'm well aware the system doesn't allow for that; the system needs to be changed. Yet, this instance's accelerationist fever dream of hoping for a rapture-like revolution once things get bad enough is not an effective means of accomplishing your noble goals.
He didn't ask about hypothetical alternative candidates, they asked what principle you hold that would prevent you from voting for her - i.e, what action would Kamala Harris have to take to make you feel she was as bad as or worse than Trump? Would you support her if she nuked Iran? France? Minnesota? If she had immigrants shot? Your family? Would you still vote for Kamala Harris in the upcoming election against Donald Trump if she personally executed your family?
Yet, this instance's accelerationist fever dream of hoping for a rapture-like revolution once things get bad enough is not an effective means of accomplishing your noble goals.
I don't expect there to be a real revolution in I expect this country to fracture into a civil war and get a taste of what it's been doing to the rest of the world, maybe a real revolution can emerge out of that but that remains to be seen
The only electoralism worth engaging in is local because that's where we can build a larger movement and actually exercise some degree of power if we manage to win
I just spent the last 3 hours standing at a protest against the genocide, while there I signed a petition to make our local power company state owned which was put forward by my state assembly representative (literally the only Democrat I'm voting for) who managed to win her primary against her DNC and AIPAC backed challenger
What have you done today? Anything besides scolding some communists who hate you and will literally never vote of Holocaust Harris no matter what you say? Didn't think so
Palestinian people: famously not known for living in a "real world" where there are life and death consequences to abstract political policy decisions.
Average lemmittor: very well versed in how serious adult life can be, brunch conversationalist, and RBG themed funkopop afficionado.
A simpler rephrasing of this sentiment is "We must murder every Palestinian to prevent the death of vulnerable groups here." How is this an acceptable position to you? Even if it was completely fruitless I would prefer to stand against the slaughter of an entire people than partake in the system perpetuating it, I can't in good conscience do otherwise. We can do more than vote.
A large flaw in Hexbear's dialogue is that it does not regard outsiders ignorance. Hexbear is mostly an insider group where established axioms and knowledge are shared as common knowledge, and therefore not entirely elaborated. It isn't a substitute for dialogue, but becomes an echo chamber - fine in its own right - and stifles understanding of right and wrong to "vibes".
We should know, intellectually and not only emotionally, why your assumption and the human rights attorney's assumption are flawed.
Your assumption should lead to a question rather than a definitive conclusion. The question should be : How do persecuted groups in the US going to suffer under Biden & Harris?
Of course, the entire premise is that voting is the most important and sometimes sole act of political agency that can actually change the politics of the state.
Ask yourself, is that true? Has not foreign and domestic policy remained consistent among administrations and Congresses in its degradation of quality of American life for the past 50 years?
A large flaw in Hexbear's dialogue is that it does not regard outsiders ignorance.
I don't know about others, but I am aware of it. I actively disregard it. I wouldn't call it a flaw, but a feature.
Hexbear is mostly an insider group where established axioms and knowledge are shared as common knowledge, and therefore not entirely elaborated.
Honestly I disagree. Hexbear is in my experience most often a mirror. I've seen plenty of people ask genuine questions and get genuine answers. The venomous hostility comes out in response to venomous smugness.
It isn't a substitute for dialogue, but becomes an echo chamber - fine in its own right - and stifles understanding of right and wrong to "vibes".
I don't really see hexbear as an echo chamber. We get plenty of smuglords chiming in with the same takes daily. Apart from that there is lively discussion and varied analysis of world events and political agendas. Not to mention how we're all mired in capitalist propaganda everywhere else.
I see people disagree all the time, I see lib takes often and those takes only get treated harshly when they're posted in condescention. Looking thru this thread it's not like the Kamala-people are being civil, so why should I?
I've seen hexbear users say they'll vote for Kamala and I've seen civil discussion with them - That was before her stance on genocide became clear. Now there is immediate hostility (specifically to the concept of voting for Kamala or Trump) because that is implicitly stating that the person is supportive of the palestinian genocide. At that point idgaf about how civil they were about it, they're literally arguing for genocide.
I don't know about others, but I am aware of it. I actively disregard it. I wouldn't call it a flaw, but a feature.
Same. It's refreshing to be able to stab someone directly in the ignorance and twist the knife knowing that they're both expected to understand the arena they've walked in to and that there are countless thousands of pages of analysis and discussion that have built up here over the years if they want to learn anything. No Hanlon's Razor bullshit, no ritualized civility, but also not the performative cruetly of 4chan. A bad question asked in good faith can be answered in good faith. An ignorant person who is willing to consider new ideas, to learn, can be helped.
But trolls and fanatics? Flay them.
I think we do echo chamber with dope ass bear characteristics at times, but also the Overton Window here is far to the left of what is considered sane and acceptable in Western Politics, and as a result many ideas that would be acceptable in "I'm as left as they come but" spaces are met with razors and lemon juice here.
And there's also a strong defensive reflex built up from being basically political pariahs in wider society. When everyone in your real life thinks you're morally equivalent to a Nazi because they think you support a bunch of genocides and repressions that mostly didn't happen having someone come in to the only anti-tankie mine free space in the Western internet saying lib shit tends to trigger everyone's fight response.
I think we do echo chamber with dope ass bear characteristics at times, but also the Overton Window here is far to the left of what is considered sane and acceptable in Western Politics
ohoho au contraire my dear pal, for you see, you have stumbled upon my rhetorical trap! heheehhe, you see by disagreeing with me on this point, you have proven my point that this is not an echo chamberspontaneusly grows a fancy and somehow already waxed moustache which I then begin to twirl you have been duped by.. The Rhetoritician! Eeeeheheheheeheehe
No but you're right. I just wanted to push against the idea we're somehow more of an echo chamber than anywhere else. It's not like lemmy.world isn't just a big box of libs patting each other on the back. This place was really bad before federation, so much self-congratulatory posting about not being reddit and pointless struggle sessions.
as a result many ideas that would be acceptable in "I'm as left as they come but" spaces are met with razors and lemon juice here.
You made me (fondly) remember the lib who cried about me telling them they'd get the shit kicked out of them if they were in my org for trivializing genocide and doing all the classic lib condescention.
ohoho au contraire my dear pal, for you see, you have stumbled upon my rhetorical trap! heheehhe, you see by disagreeing with me on this point, you have proven my point that this is not an echo chamber spontaneusly grows a fancy and somehow already waxed moustache which I then begin to twirl you have been duped by.. The Rhetoritician! Eeeeheheheheeheehe
The Rhetoritician would with zero irony make a great character for a post-dirtbag left pod and/or stage production. Especially if every once in a while Plato (was Plato the guy who hated rhetoric?) Would swing in on a rope and start a wrestling match.
The main thing I know about Plato is that he would write his master to say "Oh I'm so humble, I don't know anything!" while clearly not actually believing it and then put in other characters that would say shit like "Wow Socrates you are super humble and also smart and correct!"
The Rhetoritician would with zero irony make a great character for a post-dirtbag left pod and/or stage production.
This is a massive compliment. Genuinely thank you, this made me happy.
I suppose sometimes elaboration is something I seek in Hexbear comments and posts. Otherwise we talk in cliches and phrases rather than elaborated thoughts; though my experience may not be the empirical reality of genuine intellectual exchange, understanding, and catharsis here on this site.
As in this example, liberals tend to present the trolley problem but we already know that these groups are slated for danger and disintegration because the ruling class has decided this to be normal. The trolley is multi-track drifting, the rails converge and destroy those groups inevitably and the only remedy is to stop the momentum of the train.
I was referring to the axiom and common knowledge being relied on to communicate with one another, the way friends or colleagues with similar politics and world views use short cut phrases and conversation to recycle and communicate interpretations and understandings of history and current events.
So to an outsider it comes off as vague and esoteric, even to those who come in good faith, or share our politics but are unfamiliar with the culture. In other words, my experience on some posts is the same phenomenon of trying to interpret a Blackmoldfuture post; an opening statement that looks like it belongs in the middle of an essay or conversation.
A large flaw in Hexbear's dialogue is that it does not regard outsiders ignorance
Yeah when it comes to Marx or capitalist esoterica, but not anti-genocide or anti-fascist rhetoric, on those topics we sound no different from TikToks with a million and one likes, or old reddit before the purge, shit I've seen "Hexbear" in Youtube comment sections dating back all the way to the first yellow parenti or grainy Chomsky vids
The problem isn't our "dialogue" the problem is that we're latched to the hip with a dollar store version of 4chan made up of uniquely uneducated people who thought post-2020 reddit was too "woke", and we as a forum have a bad case of denial about it, because frankly it's a little embarrassing in terms of association
The problem isn't our "dialogue" the problem is that we're latched to the hip with a dollar store version of 4chan made up of uniquely uneducated people who thought post-2020 reddit was too "woke", and we as a forum have a bad case of denial about it, because frankly it's a little embarrassing in terms of association
Yeah, that's a better way to put it. I was trying to be diplomatic but the topic at hand is too far severe to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.
I love how you settlers keep trying to position yourselves next to the Palestinians like you or anyone like you has jack-shit to lose in comparison to people literally getting bombed back to the fucking Stone Age rn. That's truly the funniest thing-- and by 'funniest', I mean 'physically sickening'. Please die screaming, you actual fucking ghoul. May like visit like. May you reap all your hateful, venomous, genocidal culture has sown.
Newacctidk's sister is right. One can have principles and still live in the real world. Dooming the Palestinians AND hundreds of other groups is called being callous, not principled.
Y'all lesser eviled yourselves in to genocide. I didn't condemn anyone. Democrats did. I've been trying to fight this shit my entire adult life. I've been fighting for decades. I've seen the loathing, the contempt, the hate in the eyes of nice, boring, middle income, fascist democrats. I always saw what you are but I didn't understand what I was seeing. I won't take the last step in to hell with you. I tried to stop this. You're on your own. God damn you all.
Dooming Palestinians for your own benefit is callous, not principled you stupid fucking dweeb.
So you will doom them to even greater suffering for the benefit of whom?
The IOF disguised soldiers as doctors so they could attack a hospital and execute three men they "declared" to be Hamas. They were wounded and in the hospital to receive medical care. It's hard to count the number of warcrimes the zionist entity commited just in that instance. Kamala has done nothing but state she will increase support. Israel gets support for committing warcrimes like using white phosporous - against civilians no less. Israel often bombs schools and hospitals.
Here's some facts about white phosphorous
But Trump would be worse so all this is fine. I'm sure the concentration camps and mass graves would be worse under Trump because he'd tweet about them or something.
CW: SV
Trump would have even more palestinians systematically (be forced to engage in sexual relations) with dogs
Edit: This song is about you We didn't know
You are a German in 1943 telling yourself "I can smell the burning flesh from the camps but so long as I do not rock the boat I will be okay"
I gotta get the fuck outta here
Reminded me of We Didn't Know
God that is a good song
Peggy Seeger - Song of choice
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Harris's goal is the extermination of every Palestinian in Gaza. She's going to end the suffering of Palestinians one Palestinian at a time until there are no Palestinians.
Liberals have spent a decade screaming at me about Uighur genocide, Ukraine genocide, Poland genocide, all sorts of Soviet genocide. I did a lot of reading. I know more than you. I know what is going to happen. I know how and why each action taken by the dog of NATO is being taken. I understand the kayfabe they're performing, using Bibi to soak up the hatred while they implement their final solution to the Palestinian question.
You Democrats could stop this. There are tens of millions of you. Many thousands who have access. A few dozen knives could bring this to an end in an evening. You could stop this and you won't.
Harris could start a pillow fight with
and have the power to end this in 5 minutes
She could have pushed him down the stairs at any point in the last four years and she has chosen not to do that.
Fuck... Biden had dogs that kept attacking people in the WH... SOMEBODY could have snuck one in that would attack him and nobody would have batted an eye. A real missed opportunity right there.
I have not doomed anyone. The current administration has doomed hundreds of thousands, potentially millions of Palestinians.
deleted by creator
You replied to the wrong person
Whoops. Thanks for pointing that out
THEY ARE BEING PUT IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS AND BOMBED TO DEATH WHAT THE FUCK COULD MAKE IT WORSE, YOU FLAT ASS
My god please fucking just... Think. Goddammit, just say you don't give a fuck about brown people, at least be honest. There's no difference between republicans and democrats but at least the republicans have the decency not to tell the most bold faced lies.
Just say you're racist, just say you want them to die. We can drop this charade. This whole pretending isn't fooling anyone
What greater suffering you fucking buffoon? What can Trump even do worse you stupid spineless piece of fucking shit?
Absolutely evil fucking moron, let me guess "he's gonna let them use nukes" right?
THAT'S NOT HOW NUKES OR GENOCIDE WORK YOU BRAINLESS GENOCIDAL GODDAMNED DEMON
You are nearly fully nazified
Nearly?
They're still pretending to care about minimizing harm, gossamer-thin as the mask may be
Should've said fully nazified, almost mask off
The only groups that are dooming the Palestinians are the ones that you are in support of. You liberals at some point really need to unlock the ability to think critically and do some fucking reading about what your country does at international level, which don't worry I know it will never happen.
Harris is already exterminating every last person in Palestine. How can Trump exterminate them more?
You are a nazi. Not in any metaphorical sense.
god i hope someone pulls your fucking eyes out and pisses in the sockets
Damn ya'll are savage
Its a genocide bucko, doesn't get much worse that that.
Now I know how Germans could live right next door to extermination camps and never once question it. Please die screaming, you wretched, servile worm.
how did it feel to debase yourself by endorsing genocide and then get nothing in return
Like I still took the best possible action in that scenario and the general stupidity in the US is insurmountable. We're fucked.
deleted by creator
Solidarity is callousness, genocide is courage
Yes I'm certain Kamala "the law is the law" Harris will do all she can to help the many people she's deported, just as soon as she's confirmed in her belief that there is no consequence for committing a genocide.
Surely voting for someone committing a genocide will only have the best of results for other marginalised groups she's already shown she has, at the very best, a neutral attitude towards.
Hey fuckface: The Dems are also persecuting those groups. The Dems were the ones that THIS YEAR cracked down on student protesters, yet I am to believe that they will somehow "protect democracy"? Literally insane. Actual doublethink.
Now here's also a novel concept: You do not support palestinians if you are murdering them. Saying you do something actually means fuck all. Thoughts and prayers might make you feel good, but that doesn't stop the children from being burned alive.
If I find out who you are and meet you, then I will stab you. This is an actionable threat.
Dooming the Palestinians guarantees the doom of the other groups you dumb fuck, are you seriously under the delusion that state institutions once wedded to the industrial mechanisms of genocide will simply set those tools aside because what? They just really, really, really, didn't like Palestinians and that's all?
The population control techniques of Israeli fascism are already in the text books of US law enforcement agencies, Israeli AI software that selects civilian families for slaughter will and have already been sold to the US military, the "right" of the US National Guard to mow down civilians has already been enshrined by executive order, IOF soldiers are literally stalking US campuses to dox and threaten any students who speak up......just where the fuck do you think this leading to
You're literally as delusional as a German in 1934 telling this friends that Hitler "will stop at the Jews, I promise" lmao get a fuckin grip you quisling
Many jewish people believed they would be left alone because they held prestiguous or important jobs.
- Michael Parenti. (1996). Fascism in a Pinstriped Suit
You support genocide.
It's as simple as that.
Name any principle you hold so dearly that it would prevent you from voting for Kamala Harris
If there was a progressive candidate with a chance to win, I wouldn't vote for Harris. I'm well aware the system doesn't allow for that; the system needs to be changed. Yet, this instance's accelerationist fever dream of hoping for a rapture-like revolution once things get bad enough is not an effective means of accomplishing your noble goals.
Also you didn't answer the fucking question, it's ok though because we all know why
You don't have any real principles
He didn't ask about hypothetical alternative candidates, they asked what principle you hold that would prevent you from voting for her - i.e, what action would Kamala Harris have to take to make you feel she was as bad as or worse than Trump? Would you support her if she nuked Iran? France? Minnesota? If she had immigrants shot? Your family? Would you still vote for Kamala Harris in the upcoming election against Donald Trump if she personally executed your family?
a bunch of Michigan voters answered this question pretty soundly in the negative on election day
That's not a principle dipshit
I don't expect there to be a real revolution in
I expect this country to fracture into a civil war and get a taste of what it's been doing to the rest of the world, maybe a real revolution can emerge out of that but that remains to be seen
The only electoralism worth engaging in is local because that's where we can build a larger movement and actually exercise some degree of power if we manage to win
I just spent the last 3 hours standing at a protest against the genocide, while there I signed a petition to make our local power company state owned which was put forward by my state assembly representative (literally the only Democrat I'm voting for) who managed to win her primary against her DNC and AIPAC backed challenger
What have you done today? Anything besides scolding some communists who hate you and will literally never vote of Holocaust Harris no matter what you say? Didn't think so
Palestinian people: famously not known for living in a "real world" where there are life and death consequences to abstract political policy decisions.
Average lemmittor: very well versed in how serious adult life can be, brunch conversationalist, and RBG themed funkopop afficionado.
I shoved at least one pic of a starving Palestinian child in their face for you.
Seriously fuck you, we fucking hate you
Seriously fuck you, you disgusting spineless fascist worm
You deserve to be beaten to death with a rubber hose
A simpler rephrasing of this sentiment is "We must murder every Palestinian to prevent the death of vulnerable groups here." How is this an acceptable position to you? Even if it was completely fruitless I would prefer to stand against the slaughter of an entire people than partake in the system perpetuating it, I can't in good conscience do otherwise. We can do more than vote.
It's also possible to neither have principles nor live in reality. You are a prime example.
Oh ey look another one. Refer to all my other comments in this thread.
Oops meant to reply to the other guy I'm on my phone
deleted by creator
You support genocide. Your opinion means nothing to me because you support genocide.
I genuinely wish you and all the other genocidal libs would die slowly and painfully
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
A large flaw in Hexbear's dialogue is that it does not regard outsiders ignorance. Hexbear is mostly an insider group where established axioms and knowledge are shared as common knowledge, and therefore not entirely elaborated. It isn't a substitute for dialogue, but becomes an echo chamber - fine in its own right - and stifles understanding of right and wrong to "vibes".
We should know, intellectually and not only emotionally, why your assumption and the human rights attorney's assumption are flawed.
Your assumption should lead to a question rather than a definitive conclusion. The question should be : How do persecuted groups in the US going to suffer under Biden & Harris?
Of course, the entire premise is that voting is the most important and sometimes sole act of political agency that can actually change the politics of the state. Ask yourself, is that true? Has not foreign and domestic policy remained consistent among administrations and Congresses in its degradation of quality of American life for the past 50 years?
I don't know about others, but I am aware of it. I actively disregard it. I wouldn't call it a flaw, but a feature.
Honestly I disagree. Hexbear is in my experience most often a mirror. I've seen plenty of people ask genuine questions and get genuine answers. The venomous hostility comes out in response to venomous smugness.
I don't really see hexbear as an echo chamber. We get plenty of smuglords chiming in with the same takes daily. Apart from that there is lively discussion and varied analysis of world events and political agendas. Not to mention how we're all mired in capitalist propaganda everywhere else.
I see people disagree all the time, I see lib takes often and those takes only get treated harshly when they're posted in condescention. Looking thru this thread it's not like the Kamala-people are being civil, so why should I?
I've seen hexbear users say they'll vote for Kamala and I've seen civil discussion with them - That was before her stance on genocide became clear. Now there is immediate hostility (specifically to the concept of voting for Kamala or Trump) because that is implicitly stating that the person is supportive of the palestinian genocide. At that point idgaf about how civil they were about it, they're literally arguing for genocide.
Same. It's refreshing to be able to stab someone directly in the ignorance and twist the knife knowing that they're both expected to understand the arena they've walked in to and that there are countless thousands of pages of analysis and discussion that have built up here over the years if they want to learn anything. No Hanlon's Razor bullshit, no ritualized civility, but also not the performative cruetly of 4chan. A bad question asked in good faith can be answered in good faith. An ignorant person who is willing to consider new ideas, to learn, can be helped.
But trolls and fanatics? Flay them.
I think we do echo chamber with dope ass bear characteristics at times, but also the Overton Window here is far to the left of what is considered sane and acceptable in Western Politics, and as a result many ideas that would be acceptable in "I'm as left as they come but" spaces are met with razors and lemon juice here.
And there's also a strong defensive reflex built up from being basically political pariahs in wider society. When everyone in your real life thinks you're morally equivalent to a Nazi because they think you support a bunch of genocides and repressions that mostly didn't happen having someone come in to the only anti-tankie mine free space in the Western internet saying lib shit tends to trigger everyone's fight response.
ohoho au contraire my dear pal, for you see, you have stumbled upon my rhetorical trap! heheehhe, you see by disagreeing with me on this point, you have proven my point that this is not an echo chamber spontaneusly grows a fancy and somehow already waxed moustache which I then begin to twirl you have been duped by.. The Rhetoritician! Eeeeheheheheeheehe
No but you're right. I just wanted to push against the idea we're somehow more of an echo chamber than anywhere else. It's not like lemmy.world isn't just a big box of libs patting each other on the back. This place was really bad before federation, so much self-congratulatory posting about not being reddit and pointless struggle sessions.
You made me (fondly) remember the lib who cried about me telling them they'd get the shit kicked out of them if they were in my org for trivializing genocide and doing all the classic lib condescention.
The Rhetoritician would with zero irony make a great character for a post-dirtbag left pod and/or stage production. Especially if every once in a while Plato (was Plato the guy who hated rhetoric?) Would swing in on a rope and start a wrestling match.
The main thing I know about Plato is that he would write his master to say "Oh I'm so humble, I don't know anything!" while clearly not actually believing it and then put in other characters that would say shit like "Wow Socrates you are super humble and also smart and correct!"
This is a massive compliment. Genuinely thank you, this made me happy.
Then salt the exposed flesh when you're done
I suppose sometimes elaboration is something I seek in Hexbear comments and posts. Otherwise we talk in cliches and phrases rather than elaborated thoughts; though my experience may not be the empirical reality of genuine intellectual exchange, understanding, and catharsis here on this site.
As in this example, liberals tend to present the trolley problem but we already know that these groups are slated for danger and disintegration because the ruling class has decided this to be normal. The trolley is multi-track drifting, the rails converge and destroy those groups inevitably and the only remedy is to stop the momentum of the train.
I was referring to the axiom and common knowledge being relied on to communicate with one another, the way friends or colleagues with similar politics and world views use short cut phrases and conversation to recycle and communicate interpretations and understandings of history and current events.
So to an outsider it comes off as vague and esoteric, even to those who come in good faith, or share our politics but are unfamiliar with the culture. In other words, my experience on some posts is the same phenomenon of trying to interpret a Blackmoldfuture post; an opening statement that looks like it belongs in the middle of an essay or conversation.
Yeah when it comes to Marx or capitalist esoterica, but not anti-genocide or anti-fascist rhetoric, on those topics we sound no different from TikToks with a million and one likes, or old reddit before the purge, shit I've seen "Hexbear" in Youtube comment sections dating back all the way to the first yellow parenti or grainy Chomsky vids
The problem isn't our "dialogue" the problem is that we're latched to the hip with a dollar store version of 4chan made up of uniquely uneducated people who thought post-2020 reddit was too "woke", and we as a forum have a bad case of denial about it, because frankly it's a little embarrassing in terms of association
Yeah, that's a better way to put it. I was trying to be diplomatic but the topic at hand is too far severe to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.
If your principles can be bent to allow genocide, they are not principles
I love how you settlers keep trying to position yourselves next to the Palestinians like you or anyone like you has jack-shit to lose in comparison to people literally getting bombed back to the fucking Stone Age rn. That's truly the funniest thing-- and by 'funniest', I mean 'physically sickening'. Please die screaming, you actual fucking ghoul. May like visit like. May you reap all your hateful, venomous, genocidal culture has sown.