The main difference is that it's smaller and still figuring stuff out, the old chapo sub had a long time for gradual growth, and a lot of similar dramas and struggle sessions throughout its life.
I'm honestly confused at how out of proportion this has become, the site wasn't made by a few nasty mods who don't listen, it's been since the beginning a community thing and there's constant dialogue and feedback. I'm not really sure what else they're supposed to do given that the pronouns and everything around it was something that was asked and strongly pushed for since the beginning and they've just tried to carefully integrate stuff in response to the feedback. In some ways i've seen a lot of people who not long ago were saying the opposite, that the progress/response on the pronouns thing was too slow.
Idk, the "don't care about the opinions of people who don't already agree with them" seems extremely unfair to me given the constant dialogue and self-crit of the devs/admins/mods. I don't know what your experience has been but it seems in bad faith.
Maybe I'm legitimately in the minority here and just don't wanna admit it, I dunno. I'm just saying my piece, and clearly some people agree with me. Maybe most don't, I don't really know.
No that's good, your piece is valuable as well.
And I do think that a lot of the issue is not the actual substance but small details in how it was communicated which kinda helped it spiral into struggle session, like a lot of people here are saying, but I have a harder time on the "mods don't listen" thing since from what I've seen the whole time since this site was first launched, is a constant attempt at listening/feedback and trying to do/be better.
Obviously everyone's experience is different, and I don't think there's a "perfect" solution to this whole opt-in/opt-out stuff, but It seems like the result of this is probably the best compromise and a better understanding of the topic for many. Path to growth for both a lot of users and the dev/mod team, imo.
Eh. This is all too online anyway, I just hope everyone here (angry or not) is having a nice day, and if you're a leftist I am still your comrade, that's not gonna change.
Ye i'm sorry if i've been needlessly angry in other comments. This whole thing has brought out a lot of passive-aggressiveness and vitriol, and it's been tiring. Seeing it here once more made me angry again, and I don't like being angry for this kinda thing.
Maybe i'm too optimistic but I honestly like this outcome. Probably the best compromise we can get for now on the pronouns, and opening up a topic that probably would have created tension anyway, so resolving that tension now is good.
Honestly what I feel is the biggest lesson here for me is that communication is, as always, a messy thing. Bad faith, passive-aggressiveness and other such things are extremely unproductive, and we're used to employ those tactics against bad actors/wreckers/chuds so everyone is used to a default defensive stance, which complicates things.
The main difference is that it's smaller and still figuring stuff out, the old chapo sub had a long time for gradual growth, and a lot of similar dramas and struggle sessions throughout its life.
I'm honestly confused at how out of proportion this has become, the site wasn't made by a few nasty mods who don't listen, it's been since the beginning a community thing and there's constant dialogue and feedback. I'm not really sure what else they're supposed to do given that the pronouns and everything around it was something that was asked and strongly pushed for since the beginning and they've just tried to carefully integrate stuff in response to the feedback. In some ways i've seen a lot of people who not long ago were saying the opposite, that the progress/response on the pronouns thing was too slow.
Idk, the "don't care about the opinions of people who don't already agree with them" seems extremely unfair to me given the constant dialogue and self-crit of the devs/admins/mods. I don't know what your experience has been but it seems in bad faith.
Maybe I'm legitimately in the minority here and just don't wanna admit it, I dunno. I'm just saying my piece, and clearly some people agree with me. Maybe most don't, I don't really know.
No that's good, your piece is valuable as well. And I do think that a lot of the issue is not the actual substance but small details in how it was communicated which kinda helped it spiral into struggle session, like a lot of people here are saying, but I have a harder time on the "mods don't listen" thing since from what I've seen the whole time since this site was first launched, is a constant attempt at listening/feedback and trying to do/be better. Obviously everyone's experience is different, and I don't think there's a "perfect" solution to this whole opt-in/opt-out stuff, but It seems like the result of this is probably the best compromise and a better understanding of the topic for many. Path to growth for both a lot of users and the dev/mod team, imo.
Eh. This is all too online anyway, I just hope everyone here (angry or not) is having a nice day, and if you're a leftist I am still your comrade, that's not gonna change.
Aww, thank you. Good faith posting like this is why solidarity works.
Ye i'm sorry if i've been needlessly angry in other comments. This whole thing has brought out a lot of passive-aggressiveness and vitriol, and it's been tiring. Seeing it here once more made me angry again, and I don't like being angry for this kinda thing. Maybe i'm too optimistic but I honestly like this outcome. Probably the best compromise we can get for now on the pronouns, and opening up a topic that probably would have created tension anyway, so resolving that tension now is good.
Honestly what I feel is the biggest lesson here for me is that communication is, as always, a messy thing. Bad faith, passive-aggressiveness and other such things are extremely unproductive, and we're used to employ those tactics against bad actors/wreckers/chuds so everyone is used to a default defensive stance, which complicates things.
Anyway love y'all reading this.
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