- cross-posted to:
- spaceflight@sh.itjust.works
- cross-posted to:
- spaceflight@sh.itjust.works
The unmanned craft was due to make a soft landing on the Moon's south pole, but failed after encountering problems as it moved into its pre-landing orbit.
It was Russia's first Moon mission in almost 50 years.
Russia has been racing to the Moon's south pole against India, whose Chandrayaan-3 spacecraft is scheduled to land on there next week.
No country has ever landed on the south pole before, although both the US and China have landed softly on the Moon's surface.
No report on whether or not Russia was attempting to use repurposed anti-ship missiles like the ones they use to attack schools and hospitals here on Earth.
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No report on whether or not Russia was attempting to use repurposed anti-ship missiles like the ones they use to attack schools and hospitals here on Earth.
Yeah, Russia should be like heckin' wholesome NASA and their peaceful apolitical former SS officers who never bombed any hospitals or schools instead.
Ah yea. Who can forget the US operation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Osoaviakhim
The US created the first liquid propulsion rocket. While Stalin, oh, imprisoned their scientists in the gulag.
Plenty of SS officers and other Nazis went to Russia to make the R-1 clone of the V2. Which, btw, had a failure rate higher than the US clone.
Ahh yes, bringing German scientists and technical staff to the USSR to learn from them and then repatriating them back to the GDR 5 years later is exactly the same as putting an SS Sturmbanfuhrer who was personally in command of a facility where slave labor was worked to death into leading roles in your space program into the 1970s.
Let's also just conveniently ignore the fact that the R-2 rocket was developed by Korolev's team in direct competition with the G-1 rocket developed by a German team working in the USSR. The USSR chose the R-2 over the G-1 specifically because it didn't want the Soviet space program being led by Germans and by 1950 had repatriated most of the German specialists.
After 1950 the Soviet program was largely indigenous, led by Korolev and other Soviet citizens. All of the major achievements of the Soviet program were led by Soviet citizens, scientists and workers.
Remember that time Americans and West Europeans thought it a good idea to put a literal German Nazi general as head of NATO? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Heusinger lol fun times
"We choose to go to the moon, not because it is easy but because it
is hardgives us an excuse to put Nazis in leadership positions."
Comments exactly what I expected. Disappointed how many people here are knee jerk celebrating the failure. Feels like being in a room full of Republicans when someone says anything about Mexico or Islam.
I hope they fix their shit for Luna 26 for the sake of science and human discovery.
Even if that is correct (I just don't know, I don't follow this stuff), external observation can still be useful.
Aww man…
I like it when space stuff works and when it explodes it makes me sad :(
(Unless there’s a billionaire on board)
The fall of the Soviet Union and its consequences for the human race
Whatever scientific data humanity would gain from such a success is in no way worth the decade of triumphant screeching from Hindu nationalists that would result.
There’s gonna be nationalistic screeching no matter what, like I’m sure it felt in the 30 years after the US moon landing
Tbh the only way to win an interaction with a Hindu nationalists is to not interact.
But would it be worth it if Russia did the same?
(Though, this isn't mentioning they targeted the moon because all their missions to other planets ended in total failure. This one did at least make it to it's target, so that's better than Russia has done in a long time. Their space program, along with their government and military, is a joke.)
I suppose that depends on your opinions on the relative annoyingness of Russian nationalists vs Hindu Nationalists.
Given that most Russian nationalists post in Russian and aren't heavily present in English spaces, I find the Hindu nationalists to be more annoying.
So purely because you think they're annoying... and you're on hexbear where 90% of the comments are a stupid image instead of anything meaningful. Alright. I guess you're probably an expert on annoying at this point so you're opinion must be valid, right?
hexbear where 90% of the comments are a stupid image instead of anything meaningful.
I find this characterization strange, we've got emotes and we use them, but the clear majority of comments on most threads are still text-only. Seriously, go to Hexbear and pick a thread.
Yes, I am the solitary Truth Decider. That's exactly what I claimed.
There are fascists among Russian nationalists, but they are not the people in power (e.g. darling martyr for western media, Navalny, is one). In India, the fascists are much more powerful. On that basis, I think the Russian ones would be bothersome but not as much so. Much better for it to be China, but they can't do everything.
What's the problem. It was a lunar lander. It landed on the moon. Mission accomplished.
Nobody walked away from that landing, so it definitely wasn't a good one. The fact that there was nobody to walk away from the landing is a mere technicality.
Of course the BBC has to throw in that bit of kkkracker cope at the end. Nevermind how challenging a south pole landing would be relative to elsewhere on the moon.
:bathroom:
As someone fond of science, its kinda heart breaking as many people spends decades of work to make this stuff and their dreams get crushed when these fail. Hope they fix and launch another one.
This can't be right. I was told that Hexbear loved Putin. What have you done with the real Hexbears?
This but unironically. In general though, there is nothing more galling than liberals complaining about Russia. You made it this way. This is on you. First you destroy the soviet union, then you reconfigure the politics and economy of Russia, and then you have the audacity to complain about the very thing you caused.
Don't compare committing a violent coup against them with not having dinner ready you cynical piece of shit
Alright, I'll bite. Whom do you mean by "them" and what coup are you referring to?
but they did make it that way, they fanned the fires of fascism and neoliberalism in the USSR since its inception. Its funny that you're surprised that you're getting burned as well.
neoliberalism in the USSR
There's a phrase I never thought I'd see used unironically (or at all), but here we are.
I mean people of differing politics will exist in every country
also Yeltsin was a communist party member before the traitor sold out humanity, so the roots existed and were there. Neoliberalism and fascism was a tumor planted in the USSR and tenderly cared for by the US and the capitalist world order.
Also calling it in a few decades when they reveal Yeltsin was a plant
Also calling it in a few decades when they reveal Yeltsin was a plant
So was Trump, so I'd say the US and Russia are even on that score.
bro how in the hell would russia own a US billionaire
also how is this a own trump could jump off a cliff after yeltsin, why do you think thats an own
In case your question is a serious one: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book
Why would you assume it's meant to be "a own"? I have no sympathy for either of those two shithole countries, the world would be a better place if they caused each other to balkanize and descend into chaos.
Even if your crank russiagate bullshit was true, Trump unfortunately did not actually destroy his country like Yeltsin did, so there's still a score to settle.
WTF are you even talking about. Last I checked, Russia was unfortunately still alive and kicking.
The Russian Federation is not what Yeltsin destroyed, he destroyed the Russian Soviet Republic and indirectly the USSR in general. The government controlling America now is the same one that controlled it in 2015.
Interesting, I thought Gorbachev was usually credited with that. In any case, yeah, sure, the name and flag changed, but not much else as far as I can tell. Hell, their current president is a former KGB agent, and I'm sure the vast bulk of the government bureaucracy remained in place (because that's what happened in my country as well), so there's plenty of continutity. I remember seeing Yeltsin on TV back in the 90s drunk as a lord proclaiming that "we will be the ones to dictate". I really don't see how liberalism is to blame for the decline of Russia then or now.
In any case, yeah, sure, the name and flag changed, but not much else as far as I can tell.
as far as I can tell
Really calling out your own ignorance here.
You're going to have some strong fucking culture shock if you keep up with this general smug sarcastic redditor behavior of yours. That shit doesn't go nearly as far here unless you're straight up looking for abuse. You replied to me in this thread asking about the 1993 coup in Russia like you never heard of it and I don't know if it's just because you are completely ignorant of the subject or if you're just trolling with leading questions because your overall attitude has been smarmy as shit.
Ooh, did I touch a nerve? Good! If you don't like the taste of your own medicine, I suggest you stop spreading it around with a shovel. If you snark at me, don't be surprised when I snark back harder. Be respectful if you're looking for the same in return. And don't flatter yourself, you're about thirty years too late to give me a culture shock by being rude to me on the internet.
I asked what coup you meant because you didn't make it clear which one you were talking about, and I thought you might be a typical Kremlin shill spreading the narrative that the evil West was behind Yanukovych' ousting in Ukraine in 2014. Too bad, it'd have been a lot of fun picking that apart. Oh well. Thanks for clearing that up, much obliged.
OooOooOOoo someone commented on my BeHaIvIOr, guess I'm FUCKING WINNING since they're TRIGGEREDDD LOLZ!
Go back to reddit. You don't belong here. The sophomoric shit. The debatebro attitude. Starting every sentences with some snarky preface. You're shit. Go back to where people are shit.
Judging by my interactions with you, that place is here. But I'll give this place the benefit of the doubt, maybe you're the exception.
Yeah. Bravo on turning "No U" into two and a half sentences.
You came here smug as shit not knowing a fucking thing like you were going to school people and you couldn't even follow the conversation well enough to know what it was about. No one needs someone that fucking dumb and smug injecting themselves into a conversation anywhere. Fuck off.
Apparently even those two sentences were too much for you to understand, so let me simplify it further for you: No.
I am schooling you, but unfortunately you can only explain stuff to people, you can't understand it for them. As for injecting oneself into a conversation, you're the one who replied to me, genius.
In your entire user history the only time you ever tried to explain anything to anyone is when you linked a 2021 piece of Maddow brainrot making the case that Trump was a foreign asset because a guy on a book tour said so.
See, this is the first comment you managed to write that's actually hurtful. I'm sure you've experienced a situation where you're enthusiastically telling something to somebody, only to realize halfway through they're not even listening to you. That's how I feel right now. I mean, I'm sure it's not for a lack of trying on your part, but still.
You came to tell people something three decades removed from the actual subject at hand.
Given that the subject at hand is an event that happened two days ago, I find that rather unlikely. You should've been paying attention to what I've been trying to teach you.
I was trying to gently remind you that this post is about Russia's debacle regarding its moon probe. Though to be fair, after a conversation this long, I should've known that subtlety would go right over your head. So, uh... congratulations, I guess? You finally managed to trick me into making a mistake of some sort, though no doubt unintentionally.
I was trying to gently remind you that this post is about Russia's debacle regarding its moon probe
Stop acting like you're not literally the stupidest person in the room.
This is the quote you first reacted to:
First you destroy the soviet union, then you reconfigure the politics and economy of Russia, and then you have the audacity to complain about the very thing you caused.
https://hexbear.net/comment/3781001
This is your dumb fuck troll response where you acted like you even fucking read what I just quoted in the first place:
"You made me do this" is literal abuser logic.
https://hexbear.net/comment/3785916
Here's me wrongly making fun of you saying something stupid under the impression you even knew what the fuck topic we were talking about:
Don't compare committing a violent coup against them with not having dinner ready you cynical piece of shit
https://hexbear.net/comment/3788389
Here's you being an even BIGGER fucking idiot getting excited to go all debate bro on me over you hearing the word 'coup':
Alright, I'll bite. Whom do you mean by "them" and what coup are you referring to?
https://hexbear.net/comment/3792045
And here I am responding in a nearby branch scolding you for being an insufferable idiot who shoved his nose into a conversation you shouldn't have joined in the first place:
You're going to have some strong fucking culture shock if you keep up with this general smug sarcastic redditor behavior of yours. That shit doesn't go nearly as far here unless you're straight up looking for abuse. You replied to me in this thread asking about the 1993 coup in Russia like you never heard of it and I don't know if it's just because you are completely ignorant of the subject or if you're just trolling with leading questions because your overall attitude has been smarmy as shit.
https://hexbear.net/comment/3793420
At this point everyone including you realizes how fucking stupid you look and how badly you fucked up. And now you've gotten to the point where you're lying about what literally just happened.
If you're ashamed enough of yourself to lie you're ashamed enough to fucking crawl into a hole and not be seen.
That's a very nice chain of responses you have there, it's a shame you didn't follow it quite all the way to the top. Maybe you should do that, don't you think?
You requested that I fuck off like three times already to no effect, and here you are repeating yourself yet again. And I'm the stupid one here? Bruh!
I'm stupid for having kept receipts on what I'm talking about and sufficiently proving you're a fucking idiot and have behaved as one.
You're not stupid because you can shit out a troll reply as if none of this affects you.
The fuck you mean, "as if"? It doesn't affect me. What part of "don't flatter yourself" did you find difficult to understand?
Also, it wasn't a troll reply. You want to look at the context of the conversation? Sure, go ahead. But look at all of it, don't stop at an arbitrary point. Go all the way up the chain of replies.
You're an idiot. I proved it. It doesn't affect you.
So your self image is already aligned with the observation. Good.
Yes, that giant emoji was very convincing evidence. I don't think I could possibly make a bigger one, so I have no choice but to concede the point.
The point is the same as it's been this entire time, you're trying and failing to insult me. It's a futile effort, I wouldn't get offended even if your insults were any good, and quite frankly they suck. I mean, you haven't told me that you fucked my mom last night even once during this entire conversation! Whatever would your classmates think?
You had the entire conversation quoted to you and explained line by line
You have no excuse to get that question wrong
Try again
I didn't get it wrong. You started this conversation with an insult, I told you to knock it off, you didn't, and so here we are.
but that was not the topic
I don't need additional proof that you have actual shit instead of a brain
try again and actually try this time please
Resorting to gaslighting now, are we? What a stupid move on a forum where the conversation is preserved.
What part of "no" did you find unclear?
yeah here you are being mad at me apparently not understanding something that you say is tough shit (for me) when I asked you about
weirdo
The insult was justified and universally received with approval from the rest of the website.
I wouldn't give two shits if the pope himself gave it his holy seal of approval.
No it doesn't seem like you care about what the outside world has to say about anything
I hate to break it to you, but you're only a very small part of the world. Just because I don't care what you say doesn't mean there aren't people I respect and trust.
Yes, the group of people I don't respect does include that pedo-protecting removed as well as you. You're in great company.
Do you respect yourself? Because half the quotes I used were you.
Reading comprehension like thinking we're talking about Ukraine in 2014 and we're talking about Russia 1993? Reading comprehension like I humiliated you in front of the whole website over and you're still mad over? You think one of us lacks reading comprehension?
You think one of us lacks reading comprehension?
Yes, I just said so, and it seems you agree. Thanks for illustrating the point, I guess.
Every time you post one of these, I find myself uncertain whether that's supposed to be me or you.
Both, then. Which is actually perfectly in line with the dynamic of this conversation that I explained to you twice already, come to think of it. In other words, you finally managed to post something I can agree with. Yay progress!
Finally some fucking self awareness from you. Now that you learned your lesson go fuck off back to reddit.
If the roasts are as laughable as yours, I definitely will. Why do you think I kept coming back to this conversation for so long?
Because I literally went step by step showing you were a fucking moron, explaining exactly how and where you showed that to be the case. So you spent the entire time since having to show off how unaffected you are and declare one hollow victory after another from "me proving you were right" one way or another
And you have terminal reddit brainworms so you can't disengage without a smug last word
If the roasts are as laughable as yours, I definitely will.
Like this.
Your accusations are confessions. I'm not trying to 'roast' you. I called you out successfully. Now I'm just replying to inbox messages.
a situation where you're enthusiastically telling something to somebody, only to realize halfway through they're not even listening to you.
Are you saying that's what's happening here? Because so far as I can tell, you wander in here, say some absolute bullshit about Russia, cite a grand total of one source to try and "prove" that Trump is a Russian asset, and then devolve immediately into mudflinging when other people aren't buying your bullshit.
If you actually wanted to educate us, you'd do a better job of it. You'd write longer paragraphs actually trying to argue something. You'd cite more articles, maybe even some academic papers, show us some graphs, you know, give us more to work with than a single guardian article that's basically an ad for a book.
Are you saying that’s what’s happening here?
No, that's just an illustration of the feeling this conversation evokes in me. It's not that this guy isn't listening, he's not capable of understanding... well, anything, by the looks of it. His attempts at insults would be embarrassing even for a twelve-year-old.
If you actually wanted to educate us, you’d do a better job of it. You’d write longer paragraphs actually trying to argue something. You’d cite more articles, maybe even some academic papers, show us some graphs, you know, give us more to work with than a single guardian article that’s basically an ad for a book.
If I wanted to educate people about things like history, yes, you'd be right. That's not the case in this conversation with this person. This guy decided to start a conversation with me with insults, so that's what we're exchanging, and I'm teaching by example. I'd love to have a more civilized conversation instead, but since he started with the insults, he has to be the one to make amends before that can happen. I told him as much quite some time go, but like everything else, it seems to have gone over his head. Or he's just not interested, which is also fine.
Ok, thanks for the clarification! Glad everyone is on the same page that this whole subthread is just slinging insults at each other. Sometimes that's what happens on the internet.
Could I suggest though, when you have time, that you try to learn more about the dissolution of the Soviet Union? Specifically check out stats like life expectancy, maternal mortality, average calories per day, stuff like that. You might find some interesting changes in about 1993. Learning more about the world is always good, you know?
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm from an Eastern Bloc country and have witnessed the changes first-hand.
Ok, but as we say in the sciences "anecdotes are not data"! What could it hurt to look at a couple of graphs? Also, are you old enough to have been at least a teenager in 1993? Real boomer hours over here, my god! (I'm totally joking, it's cool that there are sometimes people in their 40s and up on the internet)
You know what else isn't data? Insults. Which is the only thing anyone has posted in support of their opposition to what I said. Oh, and "spend your time looking up evidence for my point of view"? Also not data. So given that my much-ridiculed Guardian article is more than you lot have managed to come up with combined, I'd say it's more than good enough for this little corner of the internet.
Alrighty! If you'd rather, you could look for evidence that your point of view is correct. You could try and find evidence that current-day Russia and the Soviet Union are basically the same. It would be interesting to see what you find in trying to back up that view. But I don't know your life, you probably have important day-to-day things to deal with that don't give you much extra time to scour the internet for historical documents.
I don't need to scour the internet for historical documents, I just have to watch the news. Have you been keeping up with the news? Did you know that Russia invaded Ukraine to prevent it from switching allegiance to the West? Which is exactly what the USSR did to Czechoslovakia in 1968. Russia has fake elections and a de-facto dictator holding power for decades, just like the USSR did back in the good old days. It has strict censorship and state-controlled media brainwashing its population with bullshit. And its soldiers are still totally clueless and unprepared. I'm sure you noticed what a shambles the beginning of the invasion into Ukraine was, with some fresh recruits not even being told they were being marched straight to the front lines. We had a contingent of Russian troops in this country during the Cold War too. They got trucked here in the middle of the night and spent their time holed up in their Russian base in the middle of the woods with Russian signposts and a Russian commanding officer and didn't even know they weren't in Russia anymore. Gotta keep the cannon fodder in the dark about where they are and what they're doing, otherwise they might start asking questions, you know? I hate to break it to you, but Russia is still the same shithole and still acts in the same shitty way toward both its neighbors and its own citizens and troops. I'm sure you can comb the statistics and find some numbers that are different, but in the ways that actually matter, Russia hasn't changed one bit in a century.
I live in america, so keeping up with the news here (at least about the war in Ukraine) means reading an article about how Russia is hopelessly inept one day, and then two weeks later reading an article about how Russia is too prepared. The news, at least here in america, is not a great source of information, is what I'm saying.
I gotta say, some of the rest of your comment sounds fake as fuck too. Russian officers put up fake Russian signposts to trick recruits into thinking they're still in Russia? That's a wild claim, and one I'm going to spend some time looking into today. Who knows, maybe it's really true? If so, watch your inbox, you'll get a nice comment from me to which you may reply with the meanest, nastiest "I told you so" you can muster.
Those articles aren't contradictory. One is about static defenses, such as minefields, trenches, barricades, and anti-tank obstacles, which the Russians have had a long time to build, while the other is about a lack of manpower reserves to reinforce the front if/when needed.
No, not fake Russian signposts. Just signposts in Russian. For the Russian troops that didn't speak any other language than Russian. Signposts in the base pointing to different parts of the base and such. Every bit of text in that base was in Russian because it was staffed entirely by Russians.
Oh. Well that's a very different claim. I would expect a base full of Russian soldiers to have signage in Russian, just like I would expect a base full of american soldiers to have signage in english. That doesn't sound like the USSR tricking its soldiers, that sounds like the USSR trying to make it so soldiers aren't asking "where do I go" seventeen million times a day.
The point is the soldiers weren't told they were going to a different country and they were kept in a base built to look exactly like bases in Russia in the middle of the woods so that they didn't find out. That's been the Russian military doctrine for ever. The less the cannon fodder knows, the better.
Hell, when the last of the occupation forces left the country in 1991, they were very surprised there weren't throngs of people in the streets throwing flowers at them as thanks for their valuable service. Like... they didn't even realize they were reviled occupiers, they were completely clueless about what their military was doing and their role in it. It was a genuine "are we the baddies" moment.
It still doesn't sound specifically "Russian" to me that the low-level troops don't have a ton of information. I think that's just how militaries work? I do find it hard to believe that it's possible to trick soldiers into thinking they're in a different country than they actually are, at least for any amount of time. I've been googling various things for like half an hour now and I'm just literally not finding anything that suggests Soviets ever tricked their soldiers into believing they were somewhere they weren't. Can you give me something, anything to go on here?
By the way, I did find this article by googling "occupation forces 1991" and ignoring all the stuff about the us occupying Iraq. I had no idea that the USSR had so many troops all over Europe! Very interesting. For what it's worth, that article says that when the Soviets pulled out of Czechoslovakia, instead of rotten fruit and curses as they expected, they instead got flowers and warm words of farewell. There's a picture that seems to back this up, and a link to an article in Russian that I very much cannot read because I'm an idiot american.
But anyway, I have to get off the internet and actually live my life. If you give me some sources to look at about Soviets tricking their soldiers, I'll gladly take a look. Otherwise, I think I've learned about as much Soviet history as I'm going to today. Have a good day!
I'm given to understand that Western militaries actually explain to their soldiers where they're going and why. It helps things run smoothly for obvious reasons. The Russians do the opposite because to them, independent and informed thinking is a threat. As for sources, I have none. You're getting a second-hand account of the recollections of eyewitnesses. I don't even remember where I originally read them.
You do realize Russia Beyond is a propaganda mouthpiece like basically every other state-run media outlet in Russia, right? Of course they'll say we were sorry to see their soldiers go and we miss them very much to this day.
and why
This part is definitely not true.
As for sources, I have none.
Damn. Ah well, nevertheless.
Russia Beyond is a propaganda mouthpiece like basically every other state-run media outlet in Russia
No, I didn't know that. I've never heard of them before today. I will point out that on their website they say "Russia Beyond falls under the umbrella of ANO TV-Novosti, an autonomous nonprofit organization." Of course, seeing how "autonomous nonprofit organizations" report on the news here in america, I know better to just blindly trust that they're autonomous. I'll put Russia Beyond into the same mental category as Radio Free Asia and the like, at least provisionally, until I learn more one way or the other.
I thought you might be a typical Kremlin shill spreading the narrative that the evil West was behind Yanukovych' ousting in Ukraine in 2014. Too bad, it'd have been a lot of fun picking that apart. Oh well. Thanks for clearing that up, much obliged.
Literally admitting that "coup" has become a pavlovian trigger word for you.
I like your username, seems very accurate. Maybe take that brain out of the box once in a while? Just a thought.
Lol, that attempt at a joke also seems to be part of the shitlib script.
Everyone's telling me I'm wrong and making fun of what I'm saying, it must be some giant conspiracy brainwashing them into disagreeing with me and handing out scripts telling them what to say to me.
Right. That must be it.
That's not what they fucking said and also the comparison is senseless.
Ah yes, well known liberal checks notes George Bush.
Russia cannibalised itself after the Soviet Union fell, didn't need any Western help there.
The USA was attempting to destroy the USSR from day one. Despite being an extremely intelligent and educated person, you were never told that the USA actually invaded Russia within months of the October Revolution. Liberals are such a fucking joke.
“The USSR destroyed itself.” Give me a break. The USA’s entire existence derives from stealing land from indigenous people and enslaving and exterminating them. Because the USSR dared to declare that it was an anti-colonial, anti-imperialist, and anti-capitalist project, the USA dedicated everything to its annihilation. But thankfully the story isn’t over. China never broke with Stalin.
My guy, China is the least socialist place on earth. It is so capitalist and so unequal. You pay to use the roads, you pay to use the hospitals, you pay for any schooling past middle school, if you don't have a city residence permit your pension is 5% of those that do.
Have you ever been?
Capitalism is when you pay for things, and the more you pay for things, the more capitalister it is. When atoms exchange valence electrons, for example, that’s capitalism right there. Entrepreneurship has been woven into the fabric of reality since God, the great investor in the sky, created it.
What’s funny is that the US ruling class doesn’t pay for anything—they’re so rich and powerful specifically because they’re stealing from everyone else (including you)—yet nobody would argue that the US isn’t a capitalist hellhole in terminal decline.
I have to wonder—if China isn’t a socialist country, why is every student there compelled to study Marxism? Isn’t it extremely dangerous for a country masquerading as socialist to expose every single student under its sovereignty to Marxist texts?
If socialism isn't from each according to his means to each according to his needs then what the fuck is it?
The quote is “from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs,” Mr. Marxism expert.
Was capitalism built in a day? Do you think that Xi can just press the communism button and make everything instantly perfect everywhere? That’s not how it works. China is currently doing the USSR’s (and Stalin’s) NEP, but they’re doing it so much harder than Stalin ever did. They are literally hanging the capitalists with the rope the capitalists are selling them. Once the forces of production are built up to a point where everyone’s necessities are met—and once the USA is no longer in existence—it will become possible for the world to move forward into the next stage of history.
Also I like how you didn’t answer the question about Marxism being taught to Chinese students. Because there is no answer. Because you are wrong 😉
I was taught the tenets of Buddhism in my nationally-required Religious education lessons. Does that make me a Buddhist? Does that make my nation a Buddhist one?
There, your question is answered.
China has been peddling the same excuse about needing to get their economy up to a certain point before they can fully embrace communism since the Great Step Forward.
Meanwhile, there are 969 billionaires in China, it is the home of sweatshops and workers aren't legally allowed to strike.
Soshulizm
Oh noes, China has billionaires! I wonder if they are doing anything about them...
I was taught Catholicism from preschool up to highschool. Hell I'm no longer catholic, but the institution and the state that it serves is principally catholic because it pushes this "education" unto the general public.
Same goes for China, due to it propping Marxism and Marxist education in it's institutions because of it being a Marxist state. If it were capitalist and owned by capitalists, it would take the path of the US and spread anti-communism within it's population.
I was taught the tenets of Buddhism in my nationally-required Religious education lessons. Does that make me a Buddhist? Does that make my nation a Buddhist one?
Maybe? Which country is this? You were also taught Buddhism because it is harmless to capitalism (with rare exceptions such as the monk who torched himself during the Vietnam War to protest American imperialism).
China has been peddling the same excuse about needing to get their economy up to a certain point before they can fully embrace communism since the Great Step Forward.
Tell me, if China embraced your version of communism (whatever the fuck it even is) right now, what would happen? Do you think that it might be better to wait until things are generally better (i.e. no USA waiting for any excuse to launch the nukes) before doing this?
Meanwhile, there are 969 billionaires in China
Where would you rather be a billionaire? China, or the USA? Why does Elon Musk never criticize China, yet he constantly criticizes the American government?
UK.
Oh, it would be way worse, because communism is always way worse.
I think it would still be terrible even if there were no USA. If there were no USA, whatever brought them down would have collapsed the entire world's economy and there would be thousands of nukes lying around.
I'd rather be a billionaire in the US because my English is better than my Mandarin. Quality of life would be exactly the same at that income bracket wherever you live in the world. Labor protection would be weaker in China though, if I were looking to exploit my workers...
UK.
My man (sorry to misgender you but you have no pronouns displayed), the state religion in the UK is anticommunism, and you seem to have swallowed this religion wholeheartedly, even as the USA reduces your country to the state of a glorified colony / TERF-laden aircraft carrier. Enjoy experiencing the other side of imperialism I suppose. I hope this winter doesn’t get too cold?
I'd rather be a billionaire in the US because my English is better than my Mandarin. Quality of life would be exactly the same at that income bracket wherever you live in the world. Labor protection would be weaker in China though, if I were looking to exploit my workers...
Then I’m glad we’ve established that it’s better to be a billionaire outside of China, because China is a workers’ state that regularly executes billionaires. Losing ideological battles online is but a prelude to losing them in the real world 😉
Corrupt politicians purging enemies is not the win you think it is there, chief.
Oh, it would be way worse, because communism is always way worse.
There's still a lot of people that came of age in the USSR. They're very interesting to talk to. Often, their experience doesn't match the American anticommunist rhetoric.
Let's try number of billionaires per capita instead of a flat number of billionaires.
Capitalism is when exchange.
In exchange for such a shit statement I could give a slap on the face and that would count as capitalism in your book.
If your idea of socialism is homeless people dying in the streets and people stepping over children because taking them to hospital lumbers you with their medical bills then, sure, China is as socialist as they come.
Why are you explaining me my home town and calling it China?
Also, how about we get a source on these claims?
I can't believe you forgot about this, but here we go
Socialist china has a higher homeless rate than capitalist hell-hole USA
Oh my god a horrific accident is being used as an example for all of China being a fucking hell hole.
The most populous country on earth cannot have horrible accidents happen, and if they happen then hell on earth.
My guy just because I've heard of a notrious Rączka from Wrocław doesn't mean that suddenly of all Poland is full of sickly people nor does it say anything about us as a whole country. And we are not even the size of China.
Also:
Wikipedia article using migrant workers in their methodology.
Good one. lmao
Actually talk to people from China sometime. For weeks all wechat was was people saying "yeah, it sucks, but I'd do the same"
China was so much better when it was run by the imperialists and their running dogs 🥰. People alive there remember living in mud huts and starving; now their country is building a space station and almost entirely responsible for all the poverty reduction worldwide that’s happened in the last few decades. And isn’t the case basically the opposite for the UK? You guys used to be powerful but will soon be living in mud huts under the glorious aegis of Joe Biden?
Yeah, it was a real cultural revolution for China. A great leap forward even.
The great leap forward was bad. I know this because the Nazis in the CIA have told me so 🤓
I know it because my mother lived through it. But go off, I guess, comrade.
Was she a running dog of the bourgeoisie like yourself? A terrible tragedy that she lost her slave plantation to the evil communists.
The only people that praise communism are those that never lived through it.
I love how you didn’t deny it when I claimed that the evil gommunists were bad for taking away your mom’s slave plantation. If communism is so bad, why do 95% of people in China approve of the government, according to American pollsters?
On a racial, genetic level they are just too fucking stupid to understand that it would be better if the USA transformed China into Iraq, I agree.
Do you really think that the USA has benevolent intentions for the Chinese people? That the USA is legitimately concerned about their rights? That it wants to do anything other than transform China into Libya?
and people stepping over children because taking them to hospital lumbers you with their medical bills then
This is an outdated trope from a defect in their liability laws that are mostly fixed.
China is the least socialist place on earth.
On Earth?
Really?
Damn America number 2
I'm not reading a pop politics book for you. Go read The Gulag Archipelago.
“Excuse me but my book was spawned at the beginning of time with no creator and thus no bias or agenda, and is a crystal of pure truth, and yours is poopy tankie peepee”
I don't care about antisemitic noblemen. His book is fake, and he's lucky he wasn't killed.
Political Liberal not “social liberal”
Bush was a capital L Liberal Capitalist
In the sense of “liberal” as used in political philosophy or how the word is applied to party names in most countries around the world, yes Bush was a liberal. Americans tend to use the word differently though, since both major US parties are pro-business liberal parties, of a sort. This maybe applies a bit less to the Republicans today than in did in GHW Bush’s day, although by how much is still up for debate.
politically liberal is a useless term, liberals flip flop on their morals every few years
Liberal as in the tradition of John Locke, not the American vernacular sense
The bourgeoisie cannibalised Russia. Liberals from the west insisted that Russia and the rest of the Soviet republics would be ruled by the bourgeoisie. This was the whole point of the Cold War. At huge expense to its own citizenry the west conducted a series of proxy wars and led an arms race to make it as difficult as possible for workers to control their own destiny.
As expected, false scarcity and extreme inequality followed, and to justify or explain this inequality, the bourgeoisie used from the usual ethnic and sexual minority scapegoats. With your weird understanding of history, you're obviously American, so none of this should be hard to understand. You have people dying on the streets, the government won't even raise the minimum wage, but the news about the evils of Mexicans, blacks, trans people, etc. never stops.
The soviet union destroyed itself because it was an unstable pile of dogshit.
Wonder why it was made unstable in the first place? Ever wondered who contributed to the illegal dissolution of the USSR?
That states had to react to threats from the US never crosses their mind. The whole dissolution of the USSR and subsequent pillaging played out on the nightly news for years and I've never met a liberal that remembers it. They do vaguely remember that the USSR had an aggressive security state but can't ever understand why.
Man, we needed you decades ago. Imagine how much money we could have saved on thr cold war. All that threatening to destroy the planet for nothing. The genocides we did? Judt big oopsies
mfw liberals say they're better than conservatives because bigotry
No report on whether or not Russia was attempting to use repurposed anti-ship missiles like the ones they use to attack schools and hospitals here on Earth.
I mean, who wouldn't support attacking schools and hospitals housing Nazis? Wouldn't you OP?
You can set a trap for libs by getting them to say that Azov is defending their homeland, can hide where they want, and Russia is a war criminal for attacking their hiding places.
Agree with them, and then start talking about how the same also applies to Hamas and Israel is an even bigger war criminal.
Hey, those schools and hospitals are very defensible positions!
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Not to mention shopping malls...
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I wonder what happens to the spacecraft now. I guess it's just stuck there right?
