I could go on and on about Adrian Zenz, his terrible methodologies; about terrorist groups trained by Isis and utilized by American for creating unrest in Xinjiang; stats about real population numbers in Xinjiang; about differences between American and Chinese anti-terror efforts regarding radical islamic terror groups; about infrastructure building in the area, investment by China; about the number of mosques per capita; about the preservation of regional identity that Xi is working towards; etc. Etc.

But, regardless, just saying that I don't believe that there is religious persecution in Xinjiang means, in their eyes, that I don't care about our Muslim brothers and sisters.

It's similar to talking about Hong Kong.

Libs use these places as tools to spread liberalism, so caring about the actual policies, people, and reality is a disadvantage to conversation.

How can I approach these subjects?

    • AStonedApe [they/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Wtf is your issue?

      Some folks seem to really want an excuse to become the oppressors.

    • Gay_Wrath [fae/faer]
      3·
      4 years ago

      Muslims in America aren't committing terrorist attacks.

      Why are you getting defensive? I'm just saying that locking people up is not ideologically pure. its not a neat or nice solution. But it is superior to just letting terrorists kill people.

      Since you live in America, like me, you should be aware that white nationalist terror attacks are common. Let's just talk about those. what is your non-prison solution for fixing that problem? Nazis still gonna nazi even after we take over, after all. They're going to continue to attack and kill our comrades. If you had the power of the state behind you, what would you do to protect your people?

      • AStonedApe [they/them]
        2·
        4 years ago

        what is your non-prison solution for fixing that problem?

        My solutions is to lock up the Nazis, after they've proven themselves to be Nazis.

        My solutions is NOT to lock up all white folks in the country for "re-education".

        • Gay_Wrath [fae/faer]
          2·
          4 years ago

          so after they kill people? or is them posting 1488 with nazi symbols a bunch online proof?

          because we're currently doing the "only lock up nazis that kill people" thing and it has done nothing to deter their attacks.

          also don't strawman. I clearly said white nationalists not all white people.. And I clearly said white nayionalists that posted extemist content online.

          • AStonedApe [they/them]
            1·
            4 years ago

            so after they kill people? or is them posting 1488 with nazi symbols a bunch online proof?

            The latter.

            also don’t strawman. I clearly said white nationalists not all white people… And I clearly said white nayionalists that posted extemist content online.

            But what's happening in China is not equivalent to that. Folks are being locked up for "suspicion" of being radicalized. There's no justification for that kind of discrimination.

            But I still think y'all are looking at this all wrong. Xinjiang being a hotbed of terrorist activity is based in the material world, and improving the material conditions of the people there is what will have the biggest positive effect in the region. I really wish we could come up with a system that could help improve their material conditions. Have you ever heard of such a thing?

            • Gay_Wrath [fae/faer]
              3·
              4 years ago

              if we give nazis healthcare theyre still gonna be nazis, though. the ideology runs deep.

              But back to your other point. If someone posts "1488" online and is detained for it, is that really any different on the outside than detaining people who are suspected to be terrorists? Isnt that literally the exact same thing? How is one okay but the other isn't?

              Please help me understand where the line is here.

              • AStonedApe [they/them]
                1·
                4 years ago

                To be clear, I don't want to imprison anyone. Prisons shouldn't exist.

                I'm not going to get into the weeds about when the right moment is to detain potential terrorists. For starters, I'm wholly unqualified to answer that question; but more to the point, it's a distraction. Instead, I'd love to focus on this part of my comment:

                But I still think y’all are looking at this all wrong. Xinjiang being a hotbed of terrorist activity is based in the material world, and improving the material conditions of the people there is what will have the biggest positive effect in the region. I really wish we could come up with a system that could help improve their material conditions. Have you ever heard of such a thing?

                So, do you have any ideas?

                • Gay_Wrath [fae/faer]
                  3·
                  4 years ago

                  So you DO think giving nazis healthcare and money will make them suddenly stop wanting to kill all black people and jews. Interesting take.

                  • AStonedApe [they/them]
                    1·
                    4 years ago

                    The fact that you think communism (or whatever leftist ideology you prefer) is just "free healthcare and free money" is really sad.

                    I don't think communism (or whatever leftist ideology you prefer) will completely erase hate, that would be almost as ridiculous as thinking communism = free healthcare. But I certainly think a lot of the hate we see is rooted in the material conditions of the people living in the places where this hate is so common. Do I think we should go easy on Nazis? No, not at all. Do I think we can prevent some folks from becoming Nazis in the first place? You bet your ass I do!