I could go on and on about Adrian Zenz, his terrible methodologies; about terrorist groups trained by Isis and utilized by American for creating unrest in Xinjiang; stats about real population numbers in Xinjiang; about differences between American and Chinese anti-terror efforts regarding radical islamic terror groups; about infrastructure building in the area, investment by China; about the number of mosques per capita; about the preservation of regional identity that Xi is working towards; etc. Etc.

But, regardless, just saying that I don't believe that there is religious persecution in Xinjiang means, in their eyes, that I don't care about our Muslim brothers and sisters.

It's similar to talking about Hong Kong.

Libs use these places as tools to spread liberalism, so caring about the actual policies, people, and reality is a disadvantage to conversation.

How can I approach these subjects?

  • Gay_Wrath [fae/faer]
    2·
    4 years ago

    so after they kill people? or is them posting 1488 with nazi symbols a bunch online proof?

    because we're currently doing the "only lock up nazis that kill people" thing and it has done nothing to deter their attacks.

    also don't strawman. I clearly said white nationalists not all white people.. And I clearly said white nayionalists that posted extemist content online.

    • AStonedApe [they/them]
      1·
      4 years ago

      so after they kill people? or is them posting 1488 with nazi symbols a bunch online proof?

      The latter.

      also don’t strawman. I clearly said white nationalists not all white people… And I clearly said white nayionalists that posted extemist content online.

      But what's happening in China is not equivalent to that. Folks are being locked up for "suspicion" of being radicalized. There's no justification for that kind of discrimination.

      But I still think y'all are looking at this all wrong. Xinjiang being a hotbed of terrorist activity is based in the material world, and improving the material conditions of the people there is what will have the biggest positive effect in the region. I really wish we could come up with a system that could help improve their material conditions. Have you ever heard of such a thing?

      • Gay_Wrath [fae/faer]
        3·
        4 years ago

        if we give nazis healthcare theyre still gonna be nazis, though. the ideology runs deep.

        But back to your other point. If someone posts "1488" online and is detained for it, is that really any different on the outside than detaining people who are suspected to be terrorists? Isnt that literally the exact same thing? How is one okay but the other isn't?

        Please help me understand where the line is here.

        • AStonedApe [they/them]
          1·
          4 years ago

          To be clear, I don't want to imprison anyone. Prisons shouldn't exist.

          I'm not going to get into the weeds about when the right moment is to detain potential terrorists. For starters, I'm wholly unqualified to answer that question; but more to the point, it's a distraction. Instead, I'd love to focus on this part of my comment:

          But I still think y’all are looking at this all wrong. Xinjiang being a hotbed of terrorist activity is based in the material world, and improving the material conditions of the people there is what will have the biggest positive effect in the region. I really wish we could come up with a system that could help improve their material conditions. Have you ever heard of such a thing?

          So, do you have any ideas?

          • Gay_Wrath [fae/faer]
            3·
            4 years ago

            So you DO think giving nazis healthcare and money will make them suddenly stop wanting to kill all black people and jews. Interesting take.

            • AStonedApe [they/them]
              1·
              4 years ago

              The fact that you think communism (or whatever leftist ideology you prefer) is just "free healthcare and free money" is really sad.

              I don't think communism (or whatever leftist ideology you prefer) will completely erase hate, that would be almost as ridiculous as thinking communism = free healthcare. But I certainly think a lot of the hate we see is rooted in the material conditions of the people living in the places where this hate is so common. Do I think we should go easy on Nazis? No, not at all. Do I think we can prevent some folks from becoming Nazis in the first place? You bet your ass I do!

              • Gay_Wrath [fae/faer]
                1·
                4 years ago

                bro communism isn't gonna fix racism or extremism just inherently. I don't know what white person told you that, but they were wrong.

                I was joking about communism being "free healthcare and money" because you have not named any actual concrete method this whole time. "just do communism bro" is not a concrete solution, nor is it going to stop racists from wanting to kill my family on sight for looking different than them.

                • AStonedApe [they/them]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  bro communism isn’t gonna fix racism or extremism just inherently. I don’t know what white person told you that, but they were wrong.

                  I'm not gonna respond to your strawman again.

                  you have not named any actual concrete method this whole time.

                  The methods aren't what we're discussing here, though. If we could come up with a good system for improving the material conditions of the people of Xinjiang, I think that would do a whole lot more to combat extremism in the area than "re-education". If we agreed that improving material conditions reduces extremism, then we could have a really fruitful debate about methods. But you don't seem to agree with that concept.

                  • Gay_Wrath [fae/faer]
                    1·
                    4 years ago

                    Actually i didn't say any of those things :) Please read my messages again if you're confused!

                    improving material conditions reduces extremism

                    Yes, in the long term.

                    But what about right now? I just had a terror attack in my city this year. I can't wait for material conditions to get better, and they won't improve immediately even if we literally get communism overnight. That's why i'm concerned RIGHT NOW and want a concrete answer. I don't have the privilege to wait for the racist whites in my area to magically be fixed by their material conditions improving.

                    Speaking of material conditions, it's super weird how there's a ton of white rich, educated nazis who have great material conditions that still hate my family tho. Almost like.... material conditions don't tell the whole story and there's more to it than simply class concerns?