Good on the name changes and the intent behind the change of content, but this presumes that the user base uses this site for education on political theory and understanding and executing political activism, and not a refuge for levity and catharsis.

I didn't really engage in those forums, and I think the existence of those communities did diminish the content and cathartic, insightful, and resolutions that insight can provide. r/chapotraphouse had those types of posts. But things have changed. Since those days where people , young people especially, needed levity and perspective, now there is only a future of impotent rage and alienation where we pursue our philosophies more so as an affirmation of our humanity than hopes that we can succeed in creating change or even a better future.

I made a post about a year go "you used to post better" under a different account, Zodiark, and was told by the users of this site that the megathreads had become the heart and soul of the website, and the rest of the forums and communities were meant to drive user engagement and for levity.

I think the frustration in this thread is that there is a genuine struggle to formulate thoughts, insights, catharses, preparations, and analyses outside of memetic format or recycled axioms, truisms, and insider knowledge. Trying to divine this knowledge from the internet is definitely not the answer. Outside of also reading, a lived experience of being an activist should inform your world view.

Speaking of socialism's resurgence in the West, it's been 9 years since Bernie rehabilitating socialism as a concept, Trump's candidacy, and Obama's presidency of liberal failure.

The insight gained there has stalled, and no one has really written What is to be done because what is to be done is the same as ever: educate, agitate, organize, blockade, strike, protest, obstruct, and build community. And since the state knows this too, the state then disrupts all of those efforts to delay a meaningful counter balance. Everyone's set two steps behind as soon as they start.

So we post here, in the rebranded shitliberalssay forums, to ask ourselves how to cope in a reality where evil is living, dynamic, adaptive, and omnipresent.

Good call on getting rid of the name, its amazing how so many american expressions are deeply-rooted in their racism, lmao

HOWEVER

i'm going to throw my hat in the ring, even if its possible that my words are going to fall on deaf ears.

It should've just been the name change, there really is or was no major need to close down the dredge-tank and the d*nk-tank just to replace it with worse versions where you either exclusively post elon musk moments, notable people's horrible takes (how do you even measure how notable someone has to be before posting? please provide me more info or a handy sheet so i know when to post) or have to place down paragraphs and go down diatribes about how bad it is to murder children, just to be able to point and laugh at the most deranged takes and opinions that i'm sure, most of us, are surrounded by.

to me, the Dredge tank and other ''low-effort'' content that the moderator team seems keenly interested in reducing is some of the only forms of online interactions that provide me genuine catharsis! i know ten other people have also said the very same thing in this here thread, but its genuinely true for some of us; where i live, i'm surrounded by crazy evangelicals, racists and reactionaries. just all around disgusting and insane people, every single fucking day of my life, and that in turn, makes * me * go insane.

It makes me go mad with rage, but having a place where me and other like-minded people can just... have a laugh at this stuff is a massive relief, knowing that im not alone, that i'm not crazy, that these things aren't normal and most importantly, that they aren't good in any way—it's almost life-affirming, even.

just my two cents, but who the fuck knows, i'm just some dude.

Complete and total support for our mods enforcing grass touching

Mindless hate scrolling is the worst way to spend your free time. Go watch a good old fashioned movie

So it looks like most of the userbase is against this decision? Are you going to consult with the people using this website, or are you just going to ignore us?

My only comment is that I think it's a good idea to make one for named real people and another for random twitter/lemmy/reddit users, I personally have a lot more interest in what public social media accounts of notable people in the world are saying vs random users of r/neoliberal

Closing the dredge tank for a joke wasn't OK.

jk I'm sure this will work out

Gossip is a great name, its what all you dipshits do about random shit online from random dipshits online or the fucking trillionth posts on elon musk

complaining about gossip being bad is literally misogynistic lmao

the libs are crying in these comments over

FUCK YEAH LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

ban the treats ban the treats ban the treats

Were people dunking too hard on people after some of the reactions to Harris losing?

I'm sad to see them go, but we can still do the dunking, we just need to provide analysis and I think that's an extremely useful step.

I know we all love the dunks but yeah especially random twitter chuds dunking should serve a purpose outside petty catharsis.

I rarely, if ever, comment on these kind of editorial or mod decisions. In part because I really appreciate the vast majority of what mods here volunteer to do and recognise the hard graft they put in just to keep this place going without it going off the rails. Partly because, as much as I'm very fond of this community and some of the things we've achieved - as well as it being an oasis in a sea of constant turned-up-to-11 reactionary shit both online and off - it is still just a website I enjoy contributing to or just reading. It's not my life or social space or vessel for my activism.

So while no one has to, I hope you'll indulge me in this rare instance I weigh in...

I think replacing the comm, if simply renaming it is tricky, is a good idea. That particular racist connotation isn't worth the (admittedly fitting) name, and plenty of users have suggested others. If for reasons of technical ease or federation gremlins it's better to delete or lock the old comm and replace it, sure, sounds good.

That being said, this odd split and potential intent change of the comms, complicated by vague and ill-defined rules (what is a public person online, who is notable, what is the threshold for influence etc?) seems like a pretty ill-conceived idea being messaged in an even more cack-handed way. Having read the entirety of this thread, that seems pretty clear by the general reaction that this is the common sentiment (even if I don't agree with all of the reasons posted).

Plenty of other people have made similar points rather well, but I think there's merit and value in having a simple space where people can post terrible takes, examples of disingenuous or reactionary narratives, or brainworms on full display. Ridicule can be a tool that's effective in talking with people and dismantling especially knee-jerk unthinking reactionary narratives. But I'd also argue that the ability to throw down an absurdly reactionary or unhinged take for ridicule and have comrades instinctively understand why it's worthy of such, is a kind of bonding and being seen that most people don't get in their every day lives. And that had value too.

The proposed names are also dreadful. Aside from the negative and potentially sexist connotations of 'gossip' as pointed out by others, that also sounds to me like a comm that's for inside baseball about Hexbear, not ridicule of 'notable figures'. Counterpropaganda is slightly better, but still seems to be pitched as essentially deciding to debate into the void. I feel like strong, simple counters to reactionary clichés often get posted in the comments of dunk tank posts, regardless of whether it's presented with an explanation or not. I also think that the creator of a post laying out exactly why it's bullshit predetermines why it is bullshit, and potentially discourages (explicitly or not) other takes on why these reactionary thoughts are nonsense. Many of the best, most succinct counterpoints I've seen and used from the dunk tank were because a user was looking at why the posted content was worthless or reactionary in a totally different way than me.

Mostly I'm just perplexed by what the motivation is behind these changes, even after reading the comments mods have taken the time to write in active response.Rather than continue to ramble, although I'm likely to have more to say, I suppose it might be more useful for me to ask some questions of the mods, devs, and anyone else who wants to weigh in...

• Is there an issue with the amount of moderation required and generated by these comms? Is the rule change or differently pitched comms because mods are spending too much time removing potentially reactionary posts that are too vague about what is the intended target of 'dunking' etc?

• Does the mod / dev team percieve an issue with the tone of the majority of posts in these comms? If so, what is it?

• Does any of this stem from concerns about ther 'seriousness' of the site or the amount of jokey / outwardly hostile that appear within the top posts, either locally or for visitors? If so, to what degree?

• What other reasons or concerns do the mods/devs/other users have about these comms beyond the need for a name change? There's been some passing mention of 'low effort' posts, but can you clarify what you mean or why such posts are a negative thing for the community?

I'll leave it there for now as I've already probably typed too much.

I suggest to change whatever the new main Dredge tank replacement is to

• /c/pit

or

• /c/Barbara_Pit

gonna wait a week or so to comment on this decision so my opinions are formed by the actual impact it has, personally tepid but open to trying it out and seeing how it goes