Who the fuck is everybody here complaining about "liberals"?
I see so many complaints and yet I don't know who is doing the complaining. What are your ideals, beliefs, and stances? Are you all of the same mindset? Different mindset? Or is this just a "liberals bad" circle jerk?
Admitting right off the top of their tirade that they don't understand the motivations of the other party and yet still barreling forward with telling them how they felt about it.
You also assumed I'm unaware of the nature of US political leanings compared to the rest of the world; particularly compared to Europe and Asia.
Yeah? Get used to it. The political and media literacy of the average westerner is atrocious and you already self identified as a liberal so you're either ignorant or have really bad politics or some combination. If the assumption you're complaining about were not correct you wouldn't have said that.
Black Lives Matter, women's rights are human rights, no human is illegal, science is real, love is love, water is life, kindness is everything... Labor is power, America is and always was a fascist white supremacist misery machine, Death to NATO
Or is this just a "liberals bad" circle jerk?
No that's individualist, we just pick a submissive person from the userbase and run a train on them, like how in communism a communal toothbrush is shared.
I would like to add that many of us believe , death to income disparity , affordable/free food/housing/education should be a human right.
free healthcare is a must for all.
We're various flavors of Communists, Anarchists, and related ideologies. We broadly believe in the abolition of private property, the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism (though some, especially some Anarchists, advocate other methods), and the establishment of varying economic systems that all have the end goal of abolishing states, class, and in most cases money. We recognize that Capitalism's death grip on the planet is responsible for increasing human misery and has put us on a course to severe disaster in the form of Global Warming. We recognize that this misery is not an accident or a mistake or bad policy, but rather a core, deliberate, and inescapable feature of capitalism.
Liberalism in the world today is the chief enemy of the left and the primary obstacle preventing the creation of a better, more prosperous world that supports human life and dignity. Liberalsim is, very broadly, a belief in "free" market economics, "free" trade, free movement of capital, along with a host of other complicated economic and political theories. The current dominant trend, Neoliberalism, is an evolution of the Fascist economics of the 30s, implemented as Capitalism's inherent failures - The need for endless growth and endless increase in profits to sustain the system, and the resulting need for endlessly expanding markets, kicks the damage and misery caused by capitalism in to overdrive; The looting of all public institutions and services so Capital can devour their resources, the Imperialism necessary to maintain access to cheap resources and to find new markets to exploit, the constant threat of nuclear war as competing market blocs jostle for dominance, the police state violence and terror needed to keep the population suppressed and under control in the throws of this madness.
The actual theory is fairly complicated, but the very short version is that Capital is killing humanity and we need to stop it.
I haven't read all the replies yet, but this misunderstanding over the term "liberal" has come up many times now since federation. I would highly recommend reading through this other thread which gets into it with quite a lot of detail and history: https://hexbear.net/comment/3731464
In yet another case where this confusion happened, I wrote a brief explanation. I'll paste it again because why the hell not.
Just so it's clear, OP isn't drawing a distinction here between amerikkkan liberals and conservatives. A lot of times when leftists complain about liberals or liberalism, people who aren't exposed to leftism will mistakenly take this to mean that we're pro-conservative. We are NOT pro-conservative.
When we talk about liberals, we mean in the broader sense of people who subscribe to the philosophical tenants of liberalism, or in other words, people who think that capitalism is a good and/or natural thing. To us, conservatives are pretty much just a subset of liberals who have even more reactionary opinions about certain social issues than the standard liberal. This misunderstanding isn't the fault of the people who misunderstand, mainstream media depicts all politics as being a binary battle between the dems and the GOP, a sport where two teams face off and that's it. But in much of the world, "liberal" is actually synonymous with right wing and that's how we use it. In the US, liberal tends to mean "left wing" but only because the overton window is so grotesquely far to the right, and anticapitalism isn't even a consideration in US politics.
Forgive me if you already know all this, but because we're seeing new people around here due to federation, I think it's a good idea to point this out and avoid the possibility of conflating our utter contempt for liberalism with any sort of positive view of conservatism.
We're anarchists, communists, and various other leftists. By liberal we mean someone who politically aligns with the basic structure of free market capitalism. By leftist we mean someone who wants to abolish private businesses.
We use a lot of terminology that's different than how liberals might use terms. So maybe you're used to liberal simply meaning left-wing. We're distinct from liberals because we don't share their underlying ideology on how the world operates. We see it in terms of economic class, whereas liberals place emphasis on individual thoughts and actions.
Hope you stick around and ask more questions. If you want any resources or further reading let me know
A liberal is someone who supports capitalism. Republicans are largely conservative liberals and fash. Dems run the gamut from conservative lib to moderate lib to progressive liberals (a social democrat) like Bernie Sanders. People on here are against capitalism and are largely marxist or anarchist of some stripe
Read up on some liberal theory, then maybe some Marxism as a treat. Doubtful you'll still call yourself a liberal
I think the list can get very long very quickly. Yours is a good one. Engels can be easier to read than Marx and Socialism: Utopian and Scientific is great because it's short and as liberalism hasn't moved much in the 100+ years interim, it's still highly relevant even if the names have changed. Then Parenti is Parenti, what more is there to say, and Losurdo is top notch, too, although I haven't finished his book on liberalism yet.
Who the fuck is everybody here complaining about "liberals"?
I see so many complaints and yet I don't know who is doing the complaining. What are your ideals, beliefs, and stances? Are you all of the same mindset? Different mindset? Or is this just a "liberals bad" circle jerk?
Also, yes, I consider myself a "liberal".
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@Civility@hexbear.net look at what these people are fine with saying, its so disappointing, the lack of civility in today's discourse😔
😔
Liberal enters thread about liberals being insufferable, is insufferable
This would be a good bit if it wasn’t your personality lol
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Admitting right off the top of their tirade that they don't understand the motivations of the other party and yet still barreling forward with telling them how they felt about it.
Yeah? Get used to it. The political and media literacy of the average westerner is atrocious and you already self identified as a liberal so you're either ignorant or have really bad politics or some combination. If the assumption you're complaining about were not correct you wouldn't have said that.
😠
So you act as though you can judge us but don’t even know basic international political terms
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We are leftists. Mostly communists, some anarchists. Big socialism enjoyers.
We consider "conservatives" to just be another flavor of liberal, since you're all in favor of capitalism.
Americal liberals consider themseles left
as liberalism is the ruling ideology at the moment there are lots of different flavors of it
Aha, very interesting. Thanks for the feedback.
In this house we believe:
Black Lives Matter, women's rights are human rights, no human is illegal, science is real, love is love, water is life, kindness is everything... Labor is power, America is and always was a fascist white supremacist misery machine, Death to NATO
No that's individualist, we just pick a submissive person from the userbase and run a train on them, like how in communism a communal toothbrush is shared.
I would like to add that many of us believe , death to income disparity , affordable/free food/housing/education should be a human right. free healthcare is a must for all.
don't forget "capitalism is a cancer that must be destroyed"
Cool, thanks for the insight.
You're welcome! The first part is more or less accurate btw do you have any more questions?
We're various flavors of Communists, Anarchists, and related ideologies. We broadly believe in the abolition of private property, the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism (though some, especially some Anarchists, advocate other methods), and the establishment of varying economic systems that all have the end goal of abolishing states, class, and in most cases money. We recognize that Capitalism's death grip on the planet is responsible for increasing human misery and has put us on a course to severe disaster in the form of Global Warming. We recognize that this misery is not an accident or a mistake or bad policy, but rather a core, deliberate, and inescapable feature of capitalism.
Liberalism in the world today is the chief enemy of the left and the primary obstacle preventing the creation of a better, more prosperous world that supports human life and dignity. Liberalsim is, very broadly, a belief in "free" market economics, "free" trade, free movement of capital, along with a host of other complicated economic and political theories. The current dominant trend, Neoliberalism, is an evolution of the Fascist economics of the 30s, implemented as Capitalism's inherent failures - The need for endless growth and endless increase in profits to sustain the system, and the resulting need for endlessly expanding markets, kicks the damage and misery caused by capitalism in to overdrive; The looting of all public institutions and services so Capital can devour their resources, the Imperialism necessary to maintain access to cheap resources and to find new markets to exploit, the constant threat of nuclear war as competing market blocs jostle for dominance, the police state violence and terror needed to keep the population suppressed and under control in the throws of this madness.
The actual theory is fairly complicated, but the very short version is that Capital is killing humanity and we need to stop it.
I haven't read all the replies yet, but this misunderstanding over the term "liberal" has come up many times now since federation. I would highly recommend reading through this other thread which gets into it with quite a lot of detail and history: https://hexbear.net/comment/3731464
In yet another case where this confusion happened, I wrote a brief explanation. I'll paste it again because why the hell not.
We're anarchists, communists, and various other leftists. By liberal we mean someone who politically aligns with the basic structure of free market capitalism. By leftist we mean someone who wants to abolish private businesses.
We use a lot of terminology that's different than how liberals might use terms. So maybe you're used to liberal simply meaning left-wing. We're distinct from liberals because we don't share their underlying ideology on how the world operates. We see it in terms of economic class, whereas liberals place emphasis on individual thoughts and actions.
Hope you stick around and ask more questions. If you want any resources or further reading let me know
I don't think people should be forced to sleep outside so someone else can own 20+ houses, simple as.
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A liberal is someone who supports capitalism. Republicans are largely conservative liberals and fash. Dems run the gamut from conservative lib to moderate lib to progressive liberals (a social democrat) like Bernie Sanders. People on here are against capitalism and are largely marxist or anarchist of some stripe
Read up on some liberal theory, then maybe some Marxism as a treat. Doubtful you'll still call yourself a liberal
Got any good places to start?
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I think the list can get very long very quickly. Yours is a good one. Engels can be easier to read than Marx and Socialism: Utopian and Scientific is great because it's short and as liberalism hasn't moved much in the 100+ years interim, it's still highly relevant even if the names have changed. Then Parenti is Parenti, what more is there to say, and Losurdo is top notch, too, although I haven't finished his book on liberalism yet.
https://redsails.org/why-marxism/
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well we the communists are complaining for liberals being the worst imposters ever ?
Go back to watching your Fox “News” that you liberals like so much
Hey, this person is asking a valid question in good faith. Be nice.
It doesn’t come off as asking a question but rather, judging us and attacking leftists
A dumb stupid annoying question in good faith*
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