It seems like you're allowed to stan China or call for autonomous zones, but as soon as you echo some Chomsky/breadtube pragmatism, all derisive and divisive language is suddenly tolerated.

What happened to left unity?

  • the_river_cass [she/her]
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    4 years ago

    most of it probably goes too far - people want to separate who is actually left from not and humor/derision are easy tools for doing so. it's not a great way to bring people left but it is a good way to feel like part of the group.

    that said, left unity doesn't and can't extend to liberals.

    • Guyrana [any,undecided]
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      4 years ago

      What exactly is a liberal though? I feel like, "I don't want four more years of Trump, I don't like Biden either, but harm reduction" being championed by really intelligent and reasonable people that we all watch and listen to, to reduce them to mockery seems incredibly naive.

      • the_river_cass [she/her]
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        4 years ago

        liberals are people who intentionally or not reaffirm or support capitalism. people are calling left-ish people referring to Biden as "harm reduction" libs because the whole argument turns our focus back on the bourgeois electoral sphere and its continual theatrics; or because they wish Bernie had won the primary and Biden hasn't done anything to win them over (I'd argue this outlook is still fundamentally liberal).

      • CyborgMarx [any, any]
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        4 years ago

        People who justify the continued existence of capitalism, its really that simple

        There are many factions within the liberal thought sphere, neoliberals, ordo liberals, classical liberals, conservative liberals, social liberals, and liberals in the process of degenerating into fascists

        Regardless of the national and tactical differences between these groups, ALL OF THEM hold capitalist property relations as sacrosanct, which naturally excludes them from ever being considered fellow travelers of the socialist tradition and most importantly makes them inherent enemies of the working class

        • Guyrana [any,undecided]
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          4 years ago

          There's a comment below mentioning people like Jon Oliver, Michael Moore, etc.

          These are the people who radicalized me into seeing the travesties of capitalism. To call them idiots is insanse to me.

          • poopbuttcummy [any]
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            4 years ago

            Jon Oliver is five years and one show away from being modern Colbert

          • DivineChaos100 [none/use name]
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            4 years ago

            I don't know, i start off by your mentions of Chomsky who is indeed doing everything he can to destroy the legacy he had (and i'm saying this as an anarchist)

            These people are good as entry level leftism but it's absolutely wrong not to call them out on stupid shit (of which they produce a lot)

          • scramplunge [comrade/them]
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            4 years ago

            Obligatory John Oliver “All the symptoms without the underlying problem of capitalism” meme.

      • diode [none/use name]
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        4 years ago

        Liberalism is the ideology of French revolution and similar revolutions around that time. It is basically the status quo of the current politics in the large parts of the world. Ideology of free markets, free speech, free assembly, etc (limitations may apply). It is ideology of capitalists/capitalism itself, they became the ruling class after dismantling the old aristocracies. In this time they try their hardest to keep the power and property they have accumulated and will try their best to uphold the current system. They are also the original leftists, because they sat to the left of the king in the general assembly in French parliament. And for their time they were a progressive force that dismantled feudalism. Currently they are basically center as I mentioned. Large parts of Democrat and Republican parties are liberals (the parts of republicans that want to bring a theocracy or ethnostate or something around aren't).