My immediate urge is to dismiss it, but I guess that’s not a refutation.
I’m also not a huge fan of “would you be happy with native Americans blowing up your home?” because it accepts the idea that every Jew in the world has an ancestral connection to the land of Israel in the same way that the actual indigenous people who were colonized do
That lends too much legitimacy to Israel imo, American indigenous peoples have a much better justification for blowing up settlers' houses if they want to.
I'm USian and I have Irish ancestry. I think that can be used much more fittingly as an analogy - all my ancestors up through my great grandparents were born in the US, but I am ethnically Irish and (for the purposes of this argument) Irish Catholic in religion; Ireland is a place where Irish history, architecture, and coinage(??) can be found all over the land. Despite having lived in the US my whole life, does this mean I have the right to call myself Irish, fly to Ireland, and kill a Protestant to take their house because it's my "native homeland"?
It points to two parts of their argument that are open to your critique - the validity of their claims to ancient heritage and the validity of using that ancient heritage as justification for any kind of violence in the modern world.
Don't get tied up in ancient nonsense. No archeological evidence would justify their murderous actions anyway. The creation of the state of Israel and history of zionism is well documented, as are their crimes.
Nearly all Palestinians are the descendants of the lower-class Jews from ancient times. The legend that Rome 'expelled the Jews' is a gross exaggeration of what really happened: the Romans merely expelled the Jewish ruling class. All of the other Jews remained, and centuries later they adopted Islam due to pressure from a new ruling class. (It was either that or move out of Palestine, which would have been such a tremendous pain in the neck that it was easier to just trade their old Abrahamic faith for a new one than emigrate and keep Judaism.)
https://hexbear.net/post/1328308
https://hexbear.net/post/2769234
So the Palestinians are the foreign Jews' siblings, which adds another layer of tragedy to the situation.
Analyse the class conditions and the geopolitical logic of Israel instead of giving into the lib-brained idea of treating nations as
Historically and spatially transcendent (ancient Jews have anything to do with modern jews, people living in brooklyn have some special connection with the middle east, etc.)
The primary motors of history (modern liberals are just 1 or 2 logical steps away from declaring race struggle to be the fundamental condition of humanity)
Furthermore, their mode of thinking is deeply idealistic. For them, settler colonialism happens just cause. In reality, settler colonialism can only occur under very specific conditions, amongst which, having a massive surplus population to do settler colonialism in the first place is key. Let's also not forget that for any ancient or medieval empire, a peasant is a peasant no matter what "race" (such a concept was not invented back then).
How do I refute this claim when I encounter it?
My immediate urge is to dismiss it, but I guess that’s not a refutation.
I’m also not a huge fan of “would you be happy with native Americans blowing up your home?” because it accepts the idea that every Jew in the world has an ancestral connection to the land of Israel in the same way that the actual indigenous people who were colonized do
Idk I’m also having trouble
That lends too much legitimacy to Israel imo, American indigenous peoples have a much better justification for blowing up settlers' houses if they want to.
I'm USian and I have Irish ancestry. I think that can be used much more fittingly as an analogy - all my ancestors up through my great grandparents were born in the US, but I am ethnically Irish and (for the purposes of this argument) Irish Catholic in religion; Ireland is a place where Irish history, architecture, and coinage(??) can be found all over the land. Despite having lived in the US my whole life, does this mean I have the right to call myself Irish, fly to Ireland, and kill a Protestant to take their house because it's my "native homeland"?
It points to two parts of their argument that are open to your critique - the validity of their claims to ancient heritage and the validity of using that ancient heritage as justification for any kind of violence in the modern world.
Don't get tied up in ancient nonsense. No archeological evidence would justify their murderous actions anyway. The creation of the state of Israel and history of zionism is well documented, as are their crimes.
Nearly all Palestinians are the descendants of the lower-class Jews from ancient times. The legend that Rome 'expelled the Jews' is a gross exaggeration of what really happened: the Romans merely expelled the Jewish ruling class. All of the other Jews remained, and centuries later they adopted Islam due to pressure from a new ruling class. (It was either that or move out of Palestine, which would have been such a tremendous pain in the neck that it was easier to just trade their old Abrahamic faith for a new one than emigrate and keep Judaism.)
https://hexbear.net/post/1328308
https://hexbear.net/post/2769234
So the Palestinians are the foreign Jews' siblings, which adds another layer of tragedy to the situation.
Analyse the class conditions and the geopolitical logic of Israel instead of giving into the lib-brained idea of treating nations as
Furthermore, their mode of thinking is deeply idealistic. For them, settler colonialism happens just cause. In reality, settler colonialism can only occur under very specific conditions, amongst which, having a massive surplus population to do settler colonialism in the first place is key. Let's also not forget that for any ancient or medieval empire, a peasant is a peasant no matter what "race" (such a concept was not invented back then).