The road is treated as a memorial by some, as the bones of the estimated 250,000–1,000,000 imprisoned laborers[3] who died while constructing it were allegedly laid beneath or around the road, although documented sources have yet to confirm this through further evidence.[4]
@Isoprenoid@programming.dev is treated as a pedophile by some, as the bones of an estimated 250,000-1,000,000 molested children who died at his hand are allegedly laid beneath or around his home, although documented sources have yet to confirm this through further evidence.
so let's recap: you said that abuses took place under communism, implying that therefore we cannot ascribe the violence of labor under capitalism to capitalism, or imagine that anything could be otherwise. this is already a nonsequitur, but then the explicit example you provided was shown to be highly spurious, so now you've resorted to just begging the question. do you have anything else to contribute to the discussion here or are you just twiddling your thumbs?
My final point would be this: whether its capitalism, communism, or some other mishmash, if humans are involved and are building the system, someone is gonna get the short end of the stick.
My final point would be this: whether its capitalism, communism, or some other mishmash, if humans are involved and are building the system, someone is gonna get the short end of the stick.
Your final point? So far you've made none, and you've failed to engage with people responding to your argument in good faith. This "point" of yours you've already made before, but you've failed to engage with the people responding to it.
Are you always such a little pissbaby?
Do better, educate yourself
So when I wrote "this is my final point", that didn't count as a final point? Wow, I didn't know that it didn't work that way. Thank you for correcting me.
So when I wrote "this is my final point", that didn't count as a final point?
Yes because things don't just become something because you say it. For you to have a final point, you need to make a point. You failed to do so. Hope this helps!
Thank you for correcting me.
You're welcome! Glad to see you're developing some humility. This is the first step towards not being a dickhead :)
Communism as a system is structured to reduce exploitation of workers by eliminating the profit motive and instead produce on a centrally planned basis to meet everyone's needs.
Capitalism as a system is structured to exploit the maximum amount of labor to generate high profits for the capitalist class.
Both systems will have instances of exploitation of labor. The difference is one of them is structured around increasing it, the other decreasing it to the point of abolishing it entirely. Judging socialist projects because of cases of exploitation of labor, in their nascent stages, is like criticizing capitalism in the aftermath of the French Revolution because there were still parts of France that maintained similar conditions to Feudalism for some years.
I could argue that we're still in the nascent stages of capitalism. Claiming "nascent stages" is like claiming "but that wasn't real communism. If we did this this way it would be better."
I could argue that we're still in the nascent stages of capitalism.
You could argue that but you'd be wrong, and you'd also fail to engage with the argument the other user gave you. Have you considered you're maybe not such a smart little boy as you think you are?
Glad to hear it! Though I would caution against changing your worldview based on a single interaction. I'd recommend widening your horizon and gathering information in order to have a well-grounded worldview. If you need literature please feel free to ask!
We're at least 200 years into capitalism and it's reached the end of its lifespan. As the USSR and now China, DPRK, Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos and some other places demonstrate. Even if they didn't prove that humanity is ready to transition into the next stage of development, we would know that capitalism is on its death bed for one simple reason: if it continues for much longer it will destroy almost all life on the planet. The best thing about capitalism is it's lifespan.
No argument there. Just goes to show how destructive it is. Almost like the increasing concentration of capital in fewer and fewer hands with the increasing impoverishment of the masses of workers is a recipe for revolution. We can marvel at how rapid the contradictions within the capitalist mode of production led to it's end.
I think the one you posted as a gocha has no proof, and now you're fumbling. Consider the fact that you might not be all-knowing.
Consider the fact that the reason your arguments are met with mockery is not because they scare us or challenge our worldview, but because we have already encountered them and investigated them. There is nothing novel about your input.
Consider the fact that we're almost all westerners - we have all encountered the same propaganda as you have. We've just looked into it
We should consider the fact that the current system is not viable and not be afraid to critique it or look towards alternatives. Why are you so knee-jerkingly defensive of capitalism?
Cuba has a higher life expectancy than the US.
China has a higher median wage than some European countries.
I would simply remove the baby first. it's not a good metaphor for your purposes because throwing a baby is actually difficult to do by accident, whereas throwing out bathwater without a baby is very easy and does not in any way require that. In this case we would retain labor- and lifesaving industrial technologies, but reject the hoarding of profit and the enslavement of human existence.
"the bones are allegedly there"
They couldn't find any proof but I believe you. It's not at all probable this was one of many red scare lies cooked up to propagandize you. If it weren't true then there wouldn't not be evidence for the claim
deleted by creator
Don’t worry there’s already robot baristas
I know, right? Abusive human labour would never happen under any other system. Only capitalism is capable of this.
cough R504 Koylma Highway cough
@Isoprenoid@programming.dev is treated as a pedophile by some, as the bones of an estimated 250,000-1,000,000 molested children who died at his hand are allegedly laid beneath or around his home, although documented sources have yet to confirm this through further evidence.
cough "...although documented sources have yet to confirm this through further evidence." [citation needed] cough
Not even the wikipedia page you posted is willing to call this anything but hearsay. Don't waste peoples time with this shit
Do you think there are never any human labour abuses under communist regimes?
so let's recap: you said that abuses took place under communism, implying that therefore we cannot ascribe the violence of labor under capitalism to capitalism, or imagine that anything could be otherwise. this is already a nonsequitur, but then the explicit example you provided was shown to be highly spurious, so now you've resorted to just begging the question. do you have anything else to contribute to the discussion here or are you just twiddling your thumbs?
Acktually ....
My final point would be this: whether its capitalism, communism, or some other mishmash, if humans are involved and are building the system, someone is gonna get the short end of the stick.
The problem isn't the -isms, it's people.
That is about the most absurd claims I have heard in a long, long time.
Does expose that you see other humans as problems instead of as humans.
That quote about how under capitalism, you begin to see other people as obstacles to your freedom
Great quote, who is it from?
Your final point? So far you've made none, and you've failed to engage with people responding to your argument in good faith. This "point" of yours you've already made before, but you've failed to engage with the people responding to it.
Are you always such a little pissbaby?
Do better, educate yourself
Yes. You worked it out. Well done.
So when I wrote "this is my final point", that didn't count as a final point? Wow, I didn't know that it didn't work that way. Thank you for correcting me.
Yes because things don't just become something because you say it. For you to have a final point, you need to make a point. You failed to do so. Hope this helps!
You're welcome! Glad to see you're developing some humility. This is the first step towards not being a dickhead :)
Communism as a system is structured to reduce exploitation of workers by eliminating the profit motive and instead produce on a centrally planned basis to meet everyone's needs.
Capitalism as a system is structured to exploit the maximum amount of labor to generate high profits for the capitalist class.
Both systems will have instances of exploitation of labor. The difference is one of them is structured around increasing it, the other decreasing it to the point of abolishing it entirely. Judging socialist projects because of cases of exploitation of labor, in their nascent stages, is like criticizing capitalism in the aftermath of the French Revolution because there were still parts of France that maintained similar conditions to Feudalism for some years.
I could argue that we're still in the nascent stages of capitalism. Claiming "nascent stages" is like claiming "but that wasn't real communism. If we did this this way it would be better."
You might’ve read what he wrote but you didn’t quite understand it.
Oh man, you got me, I am a communist now.
You could argue that but you'd be wrong, and you'd also fail to engage with the argument the other user gave you. Have you considered you're maybe not such a smart little boy as you think you are?
Oh man, you got me, I am a communist now.
Glad to hear it! Though I would caution against changing your worldview based on a single interaction. I'd recommend widening your horizon and gathering information in order to have a well-grounded worldview. If you need literature please feel free to ask!
We're at least 200 years into capitalism and it's reached the end of its lifespan. As the USSR and now China, DPRK, Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos and some other places demonstrate. Even if they didn't prove that humanity is ready to transition into the next stage of development, we would know that capitalism is on its death bed for one simple reason: if it continues for much longer it will destroy almost all life on the planet. The best thing about capitalism is it's lifespan.
That's pretty short.
No argument there. Just goes to show how destructive it is. Almost like the increasing concentration of capital in fewer and fewer hands with the increasing impoverishment of the masses of workers is a recipe for revolution. We can marvel at how rapid the contradictions within the capitalist mode of production led to it's end.
I think the one you posted as a gocha has no proof, and now you're fumbling. Consider the fact that you might not be all-knowing.
Consider the fact that the reason your arguments are met with mockery is not because they scare us or challenge our worldview, but because we have already encountered them and investigated them. There is nothing novel about your input.
Consider the fact that we're almost all westerners - we have all encountered the same propaganda as you have. We've just looked into it
This isn't a sport, nor a zero sum game. We're discussing something. There is no winner or loser, that's not how a conversation works.
Again, do you treat all discussions as some kind of debating game?
I'm considering not becoming a communist purely to avoid having to encounter characters like the one in this thread.
I wasn't using a sport metaphor lmao. You're still fumbling.
I treat this interaction like a game, because it is impossible to take seriously
"Someone was rude to me, so now I'm a fascist"
Do you think there are never any human labor abuses under capitalist regimes?
Oh woah, got me there, bruv. Guess we should throw the bath water out.
We should consider the fact that the current system is not viable and not be afraid to critique it or look towards alternatives. Why are you so knee-jerkingly defensive of capitalism?
Cuba has a higher life expectancy than the US.
China has a higher median wage than some European countries.
Now it's my turn to ask for sources.
According to the UN Cuban life expectancy is 79, the us is 76.
You can look at the data right here: https://population.un.org/wpp/
China is 2 years higher than the US btw.
I would simply remove the baby first. it's not a good metaphor for your purposes because throwing a baby is actually difficult to do by accident, whereas throwing out bathwater without a baby is very easy and does not in any way require that. In this case we would retain labor- and lifesaving industrial technologies, but reject the hoarding of profit and the enslavement of human existence.
I previously assumed yes, but you seem to be struggling to find an example.
And then Stalin ate the highway with his big spoon
oh well, i guess there is no alternative and we must abandon all radical critique of the actually existing order!
just kidding, chug mercury techbro douche
All things equally right and wrong therefore the status quo is good and desirable
Damn. That definitely happened.
"the bones are allegedly there"
They couldn't find any proof but I believe you. It's not at all probable this was one of many red scare lies cooked up to propagandize you. If it weren't true then there wouldn't not be evidence for the claim