That has more to do with their inability to get anything done than with the reason for their current state, but damn is it why they suck.
That's Socialist Alternative's main criticism of many left groups (at least in my area), the whole point is to meet the working class where they are and help them get to where they need to be, build them a bridge don't just wish they were already across! That's why SAlt accomplishes WAY more than you'd expect, given our size, we're just now passing 1,000 members internationally again.
Sometimes y'all swoop into things other socialists have already organized, acting like it's an unorganized worker action or whatever and try to channel it and it's like, dude we're already here we're just not wearing red scarves.
can't speak to any experience with that, but in my area since I've joined it's been grassroots events, protests, stuff we organized, or stuff we were cooperating on.
We do be coopting lib organized shit tho 'oops your friendship huddle with police became a defund the police rally with people chanting ACAB :soviet-bashful: '
My branch/ other local branches are for sure. I'm one of the loudest people on here about left unity, I'm aggressively against infighting and trying to steal members or anything like that o7
There's no real problem as infighting has in no way prevented any sort of mass action from happening or anything close to that. It's mostly just mild annoyances and DSA types don't like that they aren't in the driver's seat.
Nah SAlt coopts BLM rally's to make it about taxing Amazon, something that everyone there already agrees on.
I still generally believe SA is the most accomplished dem centralist org in the US, but there's a lot of real criticism there. Also like other trot orgs, there's splits over tedious bullshit.
When we went to blm actions it was just to participate in solidarity or to talk to people about how fed up with the system they were and help point out contradictions as we talked, to raise consciousness not to talk about tax amazon
Well Sawant literally took over a BLM march into city hall only to turn it into a tax amazon event that featured almost exclusively white speakers. And that fuck up is now being used by the WA state supreme court (for covid related reasons) to allow her recall petition to gather signatures.
Like I definitely think SAlt is an incredibly effective organization that definitely does far more meaningful work than DSA, but they do sometimes come across as out of touch.
my only complaint with SAlt after working with the local chapter on a bunch of stuff is the emphasis on panels... like dammit, we don't need another panel on international antifascism, we just did one. come on, y'all... ISO was worse on this front though.
tbf that only really sucks if you're pretty well read or exposed to the ideas and discussions. For a lot of people, especially newer members, they have a lot of groundwork to lay out. Even then, for those who do know, its also about learning and practicing discussion, not rehearsing, but practicing organic discussion with sharp analysis. Because you can't just go to a protest and walk up to working class people and hit them with boring shit or long speeches, you gotta give them what you want them to hear in the way they need to hear it, and to do that takes practice and confidence
It's also why getting into big fights with other leftists online isn't really helpful, because you don't need practice for arguing with socialists, you need practice for talking to and working with working class people
I know, I know, it was just the repetition. the original plan had been to do 3 separate events on each topic but somehow we kept skipping everything but the panels and I was getting annoyed. I'm mostly just teasing.
We're quite critical of china and others, but I don't know too much of the extent, it's not been something that's come up much with local conditions as they are so I can't really say as I don't know where I personally stand on it yet, haven't had the brainspace to investigate it
That has more to do with their inability to get anything done than with the reason for their current state, but damn is it why they suck.
That's Socialist Alternative's main criticism of many left groups (at least in my area), the whole point is to meet the working class where they are and help them get to where they need to be, build them a bridge don't just wish they were already across! That's why SAlt accomplishes WAY more than you'd expect, given our size, we're just now passing 1,000 members internationally again.
Sometimes y'all swoop into things other socialists have already organized, acting like it's an unorganized worker action or whatever and try to channel it and it's like, dude we're already here we're just not wearing red scarves.
can't speak to any experience with that, but in my area since I've joined it's been grassroots events, protests, stuff we organized, or stuff we were cooperating on.
We do be coopting lib organized shit tho 'oops your friendship huddle with police became a defund the police rally with people chanting ACAB :soviet-bashful: '
I would like to ask you guys to be a little more careful with what you identify as "grassroots."
My branch/ other local branches are for sure. I'm one of the loudest people on here about left unity, I'm aggressively against infighting and trying to steal members or anything like that o7
You must not be from Seattle then lol
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There's no real problem as infighting has in no way prevented any sort of mass action from happening or anything close to that. It's mostly just mild annoyances and DSA types don't like that they aren't in the driver's seat.
not surprised honestly
I think it's just that Sawant works her ass off, so people are willing to always follow her lead regardless of any sort of disagreement.
Nah SAlt coopts BLM rally's to make it about taxing Amazon, something that everyone there already agrees on.
I still generally believe SA is the most accomplished dem centralist org in the US, but there's a lot of real criticism there. Also like other trot orgs, there's splits over tedious bullshit.
When we went to blm actions it was just to participate in solidarity or to talk to people about how fed up with the system they were and help point out contradictions as we talked, to raise consciousness not to talk about tax amazon
Well Sawant literally took over a BLM march into city hall only to turn it into a tax amazon event that featured almost exclusively white speakers. And that fuck up is now being used by the WA state supreme court (for covid related reasons) to allow her recall petition to gather signatures.
Like I definitely think SAlt is an incredibly effective organization that definitely does far more meaningful work than DSA, but they do sometimes come across as out of touch.
Ahh gotcha, I was just talking about locally. And I agree, I share those criticisms at large
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my only complaint with SAlt after working with the local chapter on a bunch of stuff is the emphasis on panels... like dammit, we don't need another panel on international antifascism, we just did one. come on, y'all... ISO was worse on this front though.
tbf that only really sucks if you're pretty well read or exposed to the ideas and discussions. For a lot of people, especially newer members, they have a lot of groundwork to lay out. Even then, for those who do know, its also about learning and practicing discussion, not rehearsing, but practicing organic discussion with sharp analysis. Because you can't just go to a protest and walk up to working class people and hit them with boring shit or long speeches, you gotta give them what you want them to hear in the way they need to hear it, and to do that takes practice and confidence
It's also why getting into big fights with other leftists online isn't really helpful, because you don't need practice for arguing with socialists, you need practice for talking to and working with working class people
I know, I know, it was just the repetition. the original plan had been to do 3 separate events on each topic but somehow we kept skipping everything but the panels and I was getting annoyed. I'm mostly just teasing.
fbi op shit
What's SA's relationship to / opinion of currently existing socialist states?
We're quite critical of china and others, but I don't know too much of the extent, it's not been something that's come up much with local conditions as they are so I can't really say as I don't know where I personally stand on it yet, haven't had the brainspace to investigate it