Just wondering what the consensus would be. Is it good and fine (if you like the taste, of course) because it is truly 100% vegan? Or would y'all consider it a horrifying simulacrum of a product of cruelty towards animals?
I am asking because I'm a vegan chef and I was excited to find out that they're making animal-free "dairy" milk through bacterial/fungal fermentation, because plant based "milks" don't really work the same as cow milk does. And theoretically if it has the right proteins/fats it could be used to make vegan cheese that has the actual properties of cheese? So like I think it's very exciting personally. But I'd like to know what others think before I suggest we try to order some, since it'd be a waste if nobody actually wanted to eat anything made with it.
I've never gotten the "Oh wow this plant based replica is so close in taste and texture that it's triggering guilt." reaction, let the vegan treats flow.
I've had this reaction but not necessarily guilt, more like disgust because it makes me think my food was swapped for the real thing or something. Not actually because I'm not that paranoid, but thats the lizard brain reaction. This is less likely if I'm at a fully vegan restaurant.
That said, I'd try this too. It doesn't have the same issues as lab grown meat if its literally just bacterial fermentation like making kombucha or something.
It doesn't have the same issues as lab grown meat if its literally just bacterial fermentation like making kombucha or something.
what issues with lab grown meat are you talking about? Lab grown meat is what inspired me to post this, iirc I remember several people expressing disgust towards it
I answered a little below. But it has to do with the process for creating it not being without animal cruelty in itself. If this milk requires exploiting cows to be able to create it, that'd be a similar problem.
This would be actual cow milk though, dairy milk like from a cow, except without the cow. The same way we make insulin, basically, they put the code to make the milk protein into a bacteria and let it rip
It looks like they add some other ingredients though (sugar, lecithin, etc) so I'm still not sure how closely it resembles non-vegan milk, but I can imagine it's at least probably closer than rice/soy/oat/almond milk
I think its a very small subsection of vegans who would be opposed to it on these grounds and they would mostly be turned off by the taste/texture being too close to the real thing. But if you're clear that it involves 0 animal cruelty (unlike lab grown meat where they use fetal bovine serum in many cases to start producing it), then theres no real ethical problems that should prevent vegans from partaking.
There was someone trying to start an unnecessary struggle session awhile back that said even having things like impossible burgers is wrong because burgers are associated with meat. Some people just like unnecessary drama for any reason
Not quite the same, but either Impossible or Beyond taste tests against real meat when they release new products. Idr which. So I get opposition to them, but on different grounds.
Random side note but we got some kinda "beef" crumble at work a while back, i THINK it was impossible branded but i don't remember, i just remember it was made out of pea protein and it tasted very beefy to me. Like i'm reasonably certain if I made like chili with it and told people it was beef chili they'd have no idea they just ate vegan food
i disagree with you on both counts (it doesn't really smell very strongly unless it's going bad) but I will still upvote you, thank you for your opinion and input my good comrade <3 <3 <3
if you don't have dairy for a while, the smell of it becomes very noticeable. there's nothing plant based even close to it. it's very noticeable and pretty gross but if you're a regular consumer of it you don't really notice it.
heavy dairy consumers sometimes have a very dairy-heavy BO as well which i think they also don't notice.
I'm so used to not having these products that I'd probably be sitting on the toilet for a long while if I tried it, so it's a pass for me. I might open an exception if it's human breast milk, because I've never tried it as an adult.
Sure. I'm vegan because animals don't want to die. I'm totally cool with synthesized food (as long as it doesn't need fetal bovine serum, etc). But on a practical level, I can't see "lab-grown" anything becoming cheaper than animal products for a long time, because biology is just so efficient. A lot of the substitutes out there, I consider the $6 pint of fake ice cream and I instead pay $3 for a quart of Italian ice.
I don't get a face full of mucus from soy milk so I'll stick to that.
but would you be actively repulsed by like, a cooked dish that included animal-free "dairy" milk, which is what I would be interested in using it for? as long as it's 100% from fungi/bacteria
or are you saying it causes some mucus response even if you're not just drinking it straight
I'll be honest, I'm not super far into my vegan journey(only about 2 years) and there are some flavors I do miss, so if you could make like a cruelty free Alfredo sauce with lab milk and cheese and such, I'd be curious to try it. But it would probably fall under the "treat yourself" umbrella of once in a great while. So probably not a regular daily consumption thing.
I was never really "repulsed" by animal products growing up so I don't think that would be an issue. I'm still vegan for ethical and moral reasons, I still wanna put that out there.
Mucus response is maybe some form of lactose intolerance thing. I can just remember needing to go clear my nasal cavity and throat after drinking milk. I don't get that at all with soy, almond, oat, etc. I do also get the same sensation with saturated fats from like hamburger but not from lean plant protein so not sure if it's actually lactose or just that animal-based foods just aren't great for me as a diet.
Yes, I would try that. Adding nutrients to plant based milk doesn't make it a simulacrum, imo.
no no no it's dairy milk, like, actual whey protein, but I guess they use fungi to ferment it from sugar or something like that idk
feels wrong to call it plant based, but that's just my opinion I guess
the whey comes from sugars being fermented by genetically modified organisms
Sorry I'm realizing you already said that and I can't read.
I get what you mean about it not being plant based but I also wouldn't say it has anything to do with animals either
Depending on what specifically causes that, if it's lactose, the specific Bored Cow "milk" brand I saw on Target's website says it's lactose free. So that might work, unless you're allergic to whey protein
Also I framed the question as about drinking it but I'm more interested in cooking with it, i.e. vegan "alfredo" sauce, vegan cheeses with actual cheese like properties (the vegan cheese we get at work is like plastic, it doesn't melt properly, etc)
For the vegan cheese not melting, try potato cheese if you can convince your work to test it. I know someone who runs a pizza place who uses it for their vegan pies and it melts great but isnt like curdled and gooey like some other vegan cheeses.
I made a "cheese" sauce out of potato/onion and nutritional yeast and stuff and like it tasted good but it still doesn't really taste like cheese, it's kinda like it's own thing yknow?
Something I've tried but never got entirely how I wanted was adding more potato starch to that cheese sauce and a bit of flower so it's a bit thicker and then you can label a bit onto a flat top and cook it into a vegan kraft single. It was at my old job and covid got in the way of scientific progress, but it's for sure something that could be done
There's a lot of good vegan cheese around but the pizza oven at my work is over 600 degrees and none do for have held up well under that kind of heat. They liquid.
No, I would never want such a product. If something is close enough in taste to dairy it is disgusting to me. Also, the proteins and fats in dairy are known to be unhealthy, and I if I wasn't vegan, I'd still avoid dairy for the health impact.
milk and meat at the last two things keeping me from a completely plant based diet and lemmy's has given me a few things to try to replace meat and i hope that milk is on the horizon too. soy and oat milks are okay; but they're pricey.
So, you don't eat eggs? Milk and meat eating doesn't make you 2 things away from vegan. You eat meat.
"cigarettes and cigars are the last two things keeping me from being smoke-free"
I've seen people bullshit almost not eating meat via chicken or fish but just saying meat is keeping you from being vegan us so much more general than I've ever seen
The reason I'm asking this is because they have animal-free "dairy" milk, apparently, as I just found out. It's expensive but it's about on par with rice/soy/nut milks, I think? it's like $5.29 for a quart
not cheap enough to replace drinking dairy milk if you're someone who does that, but IMO cheap enough to consider for use in recipes which call for milk which you'd like to try to make vegan
i curse the federal government for giving me a taste for cold milk and cheese due to all of the government cheese & powdered milk i grew up consuming. lol
i curse the federal government
i'da just stopped there tbh
I don't like drinking milk. But, there are some baking recipes that work a bit better with dairy. I'd probably get some for that alone (assuming it is ethically produced of course).
I can make oat milk and stuff work of course, just a bit more fiddly, with more added ingredients usually.
I've bought a couple pints of ice cream made from that in the past. Brand was Brave Robot and they used the precision fermentation whey from Perfect Day. It was really good. Not better enough than oat milk ice cream to justify the cost though.
Iirc Perfect Day stopped trying to sell direct to consumers so they shut down brands like Brave Robot to sell directly to other businesses to use their whey.
I know a couple companies are close to selling mozzarella made from it to the public and they plan on moving to other cheeses after that.
I don't like straight up cows milk but might give cheese made from it a shot. I've had a hard time making e.g. whipping cream from plant milks too especially since I don't like a strong coconut flavor. Basically no ethical objections from me.
I'm not really a milk fan, but I'm excited if this means we can end up with vegan dairy cheese
right?? cream, cheese, honey and eggs are 4 things i really wish could be vegan because they're so useful for a lot of cooking. animal-free milk would mean we could do two of those vegan
Does it have cholesterol like regular animal milks? The health implications would be a factor to consider for many folks.
this specific product I saw on Target's website says 0 cholesterol
Something important and that you should mention (especially because I did not expect it) is that it's also lactose free. As a lactose intolerant person who actually embraced veganism because of this that's interesting
yeah I guess, I guess I just don't think that's that important since you can also use lactase pills if lactose intolerance is what puts you off from animal milk. At least they work for me, I've seen other people say they still can't tolerate milk, so idk
