3:06-3:07 for HK

2:57-2:58, 3:10-3:11 for Euromaiden

  • GarbageShoot [he/him]
    ·
    1 year ago

    What's your bar for reasonable inference? Do we need to wait for the NED to make a post bragging about it in a few years?

    • Joe@discuss.tchncs.de
      ·
      1 year ago

      Specifics will only be known much later, if at all.

      I think that we can infer that the US involves itself anywhere where its business or security interests are threatened, or it could give them an advantage (also by denying competition). That's because of well documented patterns of past behaviour.

      How much of a role their psyops teams played/are playing pre/during/post these particular events, we may never know, but I sure would like to. This video doesn't give us that though.

      I'm probably just arguing a technicality at this point. 😛

      • iie [they/them, he/him]
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        some specifics are hinted at already. I'm on my phone but this article includes some info on western involvement in Tiananmen.

        https://www.fridayeveryday.com/how-psy-ops-warriors-fooled-me-about-tiananmen-square-a-warning/

        Not everything is well sourced, which is kinda to be expected for this topic, but some of the more solid claims are:


        Student leaders were promised US passports, CIA-run safe passage out of China, and enrollment in top US universities.

        This refers to the somewhat racistly-named Operation Yellowbird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird


        On May 28th, 1989, Gene Sharp, America’s top undercover street protest strategist, flew into Beijing with his assistant Bruce Jenkins to offer help. “The students in the square were operating with great commitment and bravery but they didn’t know what the hell they were doing,” Sharp later wrote.

        Sharp admits he flew there with Bruce Jenkins https://www.bmartin.cc/pubs/90sa/90sa_Sharp.pdf

        As for whether or not he was "America's top undercover street protest strategist," I think these articles make a pretty compelling case:

        https://nonsite.org/change-agent-gene-sharps-neoliberal-nonviolence-part-one/

        https://jacobin.com/2019/12/gene-sharp-george-lakey-neoliberal-nonviolence


        This one is a little less solid

        A key player was Colonel Robert Helvey, a 30-year Pentagon veteran of destabilization operations in Asia. He “trained, in Hong Kong, the student leaders from Beijing in mass demonstration techniques, which they were to subsequently use in the Tiananmen Square incident of June 1989,” according to a highly detailed academic paper by B. Raman, the former director of India’s foreign intelligence agency.

        The title of Raman's paper is "The USA'S National Endowment For Democracy (NED): An Update"

        This website includes the paper in plain text, just ctrl-f "update" http://www.arsipso.com/CHINESE%20ANGER%20AGAINST%20NED.asp

        Bahukutumbi Raman appears to have been a real guy who worked in Indian intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._Raman

        Google readily attests that Colonel Robert Helvey is a real guy who worked extensively with Gene Sharp, the dude from the last quote, and that training protesters was his job. But uh, admittedly, I did not find any conclusive proof that Helvey specifically trained Tiananmen protesters in Hong Kong. I didn't look that hard, but I guess it's possible Raman made that up.


        This one is even less solid, but I'll throw it in anyway

        In the following months, CIA agents helped Chinese student activists form an anti-government movement, and even provided typewriters, fax machines and other equipment to help them spread their message—this information came from a US official.

        The Vancouver Sun did state this in an article in 1992 https://www.newspapers.com/article/78970117/

        For months before the June 3 attack on the demonstrators, the CIA had been helping student activists form the anti-government movement, providing typewriters, facsimile machines and other equipment to help them spread their message, said one official.

        But the official is anonymous, so maybe the Vancouver Sun made it up.


        The whole breakdown is worth a read, there's much more I omitted. Here's the link again:

        https://www.fridayeveryday.com/how-psy-ops-warriors-fooled-me-about-tiananmen-square-a-warning/