Okay but it is probably worth noting that material conditions changing isn’t the same things as them improving, which I figured it was obvious that that was what we would be meaning here given the issue here being whether or not the Material Condition of Misery is likely to be permanent.
If you're looking for a guarantee that material conditions will improve, then I don't know what to say, because there is no such guarantee. Likewise, there is no guarantee that misery will persist for the same reason. The only thing that's obvious is that material conditions are never permanent, which is partially why anti-natalist sentiments make no sense to me, particularly when they come from folks on the left.
As I see it, capitalism produces misery through the process of alienation. Alienation from our work, alienation from each other, and alienation from society at large. In order to believe that misery is permanent, I'd have to believe that alienation is permanent--that it's impossible to construct a society where people aren't alienated from each other and their work. I'd have to believe in the permanence of capitalism in other words. But if I believed in the permanence of capitalism or in the impossibility of socialism, then I wouldn't really be a leftist and I would have no reason to call myself a socialist.
As I see it, a belief in the permanence of misery requires an admission that socialism is impossible. Do you agree? (not trying to back you into a corner here--I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts on this)
I suppose; although as an American there doesn’t really seem to be much in the way of a political stance I can take that doesn’t ultimately resolve into a defeatist death cult, at least on my end. Which actually might explain the prevalence of anti-natalism as a sentiment in the Western Left tbh.
I just don't see how anti-natalism follows from the insufficiency of the American left. I'm American too, and I certainly don't think I'll see socialism in my lifetime, but it wouldn't surprise me if I saw a growth in militant unionization and a growth in socialist parties. The stages for that are already set in place. The neoliberal assault on labor is weakening, and in the wake of COVID, global supply chains are being reworked in order to make them more national. But if production is to return to the imperialist core, then that will open up new possibilities for industrial unionization, and it gives capital fewer options to resist the unionization. At the same time, anti-socialist sentiment is rapidly dying off as the younger generations are much more interested in radical left politics than the older generations. I don't see the rise in interest in socialism and Marxism retreating anytime soon, unless Boomers figure out how to live forever. Finally, through the BLM protests, young organizers are starting to relearn the techniques of protest and civic disruption--and are forcing America's ugly race relations and grotesque criminal justice system to the forefront of everyone's mind.
All this points towards a future in which socialism is much less of a pipe dream than it feels now. Projecting the current state of the American left into the indefinite future seems at odds with what has happened over the last 10 years, and with what is happening now. Being an anti-natalist would require me to ignore the rising American left that I see right in front of my face. It would require me to erase the actually existing American socialists who are working successfully towards a future where socialism becomes a real possibility.
(Also I suppose I should mention that my previous comment was not really about broad social trends at all, it was half me doing a bit, and half a cry for help.)
That's fair--I kinda figured. I wanted to focus on anti-natalism because it seemed to be the focus of OP, and also because I truly believe that it is a misanthropic view that is not only personally destructive, but destructive to the left as a political project (not to mention dismissive of socialists working on behalf of future generations)--it's important to me to at least try and keep people from falling down that path.
Anyways, sorry to hear that you're in a tough spot. I wish I had good advice, but I'm not in a great place myself!
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If you're looking for a guarantee that material conditions will improve, then I don't know what to say, because there is no such guarantee. Likewise, there is no guarantee that misery will persist for the same reason. The only thing that's obvious is that material conditions are never permanent, which is partially why anti-natalist sentiments make no sense to me, particularly when they come from folks on the left.
As I see it, capitalism produces misery through the process of alienation. Alienation from our work, alienation from each other, and alienation from society at large. In order to believe that misery is permanent, I'd have to believe that alienation is permanent--that it's impossible to construct a society where people aren't alienated from each other and their work. I'd have to believe in the permanence of capitalism in other words. But if I believed in the permanence of capitalism or in the impossibility of socialism, then I wouldn't really be a leftist and I would have no reason to call myself a socialist.
As I see it, a belief in the permanence of misery requires an admission that socialism is impossible. Do you agree? (not trying to back you into a corner here--I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts on this)
I just don't see how anti-natalism follows from the insufficiency of the American left. I'm American too, and I certainly don't think I'll see socialism in my lifetime, but it wouldn't surprise me if I saw a growth in militant unionization and a growth in socialist parties. The stages for that are already set in place. The neoliberal assault on labor is weakening, and in the wake of COVID, global supply chains are being reworked in order to make them more national. But if production is to return to the imperialist core, then that will open up new possibilities for industrial unionization, and it gives capital fewer options to resist the unionization. At the same time, anti-socialist sentiment is rapidly dying off as the younger generations are much more interested in radical left politics than the older generations. I don't see the rise in interest in socialism and Marxism retreating anytime soon, unless Boomers figure out how to live forever. Finally, through the BLM protests, young organizers are starting to relearn the techniques of protest and civic disruption--and are forcing America's ugly race relations and grotesque criminal justice system to the forefront of everyone's mind.
All this points towards a future in which socialism is much less of a pipe dream than it feels now. Projecting the current state of the American left into the indefinite future seems at odds with what has happened over the last 10 years, and with what is happening now. Being an anti-natalist would require me to ignore the rising American left that I see right in front of my face. It would require me to erase the actually existing American socialists who are working successfully towards a future where socialism becomes a real possibility.
That's fair--I kinda figured. I wanted to focus on anti-natalism because it seemed to be the focus of OP, and also because I truly believe that it is a misanthropic view that is not only personally destructive, but destructive to the left as a political project (not to mention dismissive of socialists working on behalf of future generations)--it's important to me to at least try and keep people from falling down that path.
Anyways, sorry to hear that you're in a tough spot. I wish I had good advice, but I'm not in a great place myself!