- cross-posted to:
- firefox@lemmy.ml
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The problem though is that there are only three actually independent browsers: Firefox, Chrome, Safari. Two of those are controlled by the world's largest tech companies, and are created for ulterior purpose. No other entity produces a modern web browser that is independent from one of those three. Any decision that any of the others make that deviates from those browsers substantially is a decision to be left behind. If that Mozilla of the past can not be brought back or reborn elsewhere, the open web is over.
firefox has been such a non-entity on mobile that I think we're not really coming back from this, this time.
Tragic and I'm not sure exactly why. The new Firefox Fenix seems great to me, the old Firefox Klar seems great to me, and the old old Firefox also seemed just fine.
Does it matter if its a non-entity if it also works fine? I use Firefox mobile and its great.
Of course, if Mozilla dies it will probable stop being maintained...
I also use it. I'm saying the evolution of internet standards away from the open web will start on mobile and the slow death of firefox on desktop will ensure that the current trends of sites only testing compatibility with chrome will continue until firefox is virtually unusable. it's not about whether you find it usable or not but its impact on how the web is architected.
Opera has been based on Chrome for years now and has zero meaningful independence from it.
kinda funny that there are a million web browsers and they're all basically chrome, the most daring ones are based on a webkit branch
Ok you did it, you found the exception. There's a couple of decades old really fringe browsers like that out there that are still being updated, but they're essentially living fossils. Chrome and Chromium based browsers have something like an 80% market share at this point. It's Google all the way down.
After skimming a few toots by this guy on mastodon, I think he is a code/FOSS minimalist and dislikes the current javascript-ified heavy web and Firefox by proxy and is willing to accept chud talking points uncritically because they support his argument, not because he himself is a chud.
Also, he's a pretty good shitposter: https://cmpwn.com/@sir/105076234374526664
dislikes the current javascript-ified heavy web
This fucking shit will be harder to extricate than capitalism
I think the focus on webapps has to be because of 1. the profit motive, and 2. the effects of closed source development.
If libraries, dependencies, and everything was open source and software devs were working on things either in their spare time or owned their own production, I think we'd be trending back towards simple and elegant desktop programs or mobile apps.
Under capitalism? No way, just wrap it in electron and ship it.
Yeah as we get more processing power, you can just make a fucking website template that loads every possible fucking component it might ever need. No need to debug shit, just don't add padding to the 50 invisible divs making up one rectangle. Don't forget all the bell and whistle scripts! Load that fucking shit even if it does nothing.
I can understand doing it like this for your own project, just for error handling inputs, but...
GOD DAMN 135,000 DOWNLOADS PER WEEK. HOW MUCH OF THE INTERNET RELIES ON THIS DUDE'S 3 LINES OF CODE LIKE WHAT THE HELL
Wait so is that 135,000 programmers who just fucking don't know logic or like, math?
HOW MUCH OF THE INTERNET RELIES ON THIS DUDE’S 3 LINES OF CODE
https://www.theregister.com/2016/03/23/npm_left_pad_chaos/
It's happened before, it will happen again.
a lot of tech people sound anti capitalist until they start blaming everything bad google does on (((soros))) and (((leftists)))
LOL he literally posted "kill all landlords" alright he's OK in my book https://cmpwn.com/@sir/105044916635633449
ugh I guess I should use mastodon eventually to get that tasty tasty parasocial relationship with other techies
a lot of right wingers shit on mozzila constantly and instead use the proprietary brave, or the absolute abortion (both in usability and performance)that is pale moon
the absolute abortion (both in usability and performance)that is pale moon
Everything about Pale Moon is a complete embarrassment. I'm reminded of this fiasco .
The culture wars are so advanced and 3D by now that whenever I see a techbro criticize Firefox, I assume they’re doing it to punish Mozilla EG “go woke go broke” because they fired a homophobic dick and are openly SJW-ish.
Drew is not a right-winger. Assuming so --- even when the post doesn't touch on that at all --- is an issue with your intellectual attitude, not anything else.
“Mozilla published a statement siding with Google on anti-trust, failing to disclose the fact that Google pays to keep their lights on” This is so incorrect I’m assuming bad faith. Google is shit but Oracle is triple shit. If the SCOTUS sides with Oracle it will be disastrous for all FOSS development.
How is the antitrust lawsuit related to Oracle v. Google? He is referencing this article which is pure Google bootlicking. Also, it is true that Google mostly bankrolls Mozilla and has for a long time. Their royalties in 2014 were 90% from Google
“Raised executive pay 400% as their market share declined 85%” - this is so incorrect I’m assuming bad faith. Mozilla was paying their execs like 10% of the industry standard, and now pay them 40% of the industry standard. Capitalism is awful but this isn’t an example of incompetence or looting by the ruling class, it was to retain talent.
Talent? At the C-level? :agony-turbo:
At least we can agree that executives, at Mozilla or not, are generally overpaid.
Hello mao person, I understand why you're upset here, but could you please not resort to direct insults. I understand being vocal against chuds and wreckers, but this doesn't seem to be the case here. There are better ways to voice your discontentment against bad takes. Use them.
the scope of web browsers has been increasing at a reckless pace for years, to the point where it’s literally impossible to build a new web browser.
Mostly because EVERYTHING (and I mean EVERYTHING) is ran on the web now a days.
The biggest problem is Google can just announce a change in standards and everyone else has to follow. It's a permanent game of catch-up.
That's also the problem. But banking, eCommerce (which is a part of banking), games (though that's dying due to Flash, though HTML5/Javascript is doing work now?), and the like all run on web servers/standards to where they go through/render on the browser.
But you're right: Google has a major strangle-hold on the standards and Mozilla has been slowly losing that fight because they don't have the money/adoption (anymore) to be competitive.
another day another guy trying to re-invent HTTP because the web is "too bloated", except they're not even doing something interesting like implementing an s-exp markup language interpreter
lol why tf are lines terminated with CRLF? LF is basically the standard and CRLF is some bullshit Windows thing that devs have to deal with.
I've had a good experience with Firefox. Maybe I should switch back to chrome?
Drew has some -- some -- good tech posts. He's not actually critical of capitalist structures or anything. I have to ignore this and other HN-type takes on browsers or language wars, not because I care about Firefox (or the web, fuck ur SPAs), but because it's almost on the same level as leftist infighting in how useless it is to waste energy on.
Deciding now is the time to give up on the web? Honestly it's at least been trash since JS was invented. Using a document interchange format for interactive applications is bad. Letting Google and corporations control the entire standards org is bad. It's not Mozilla's fault and saying "fuck you i'll go build my own" isn't gonna work either.
Crying about DNS-over-HTTPS (not my favorite implementation of secure DNS but alas)... I just don't get how techbros can get to being so upsetti about Mozilla. I don't know if Moz's statement has been edited since posting this, but it clearly calls out their "search agreement". Anyone reading Moz press releases knows what that means. FF has always existed at Google's whim, but it's really privileged to only care about governance when it comes to tech adjacent things.
An open source browser needs public funding and their exec board is acting as capitalists will. Why isn't SourceHut / sr.ht AGPL if you want something to be "the shining beacon of open source"?
Open Source is not FSF style Free Software. I get it, we all have to make a buck, and the GPL is scary. But put your money where your mouth is, and just use gitweb on a VPS like me lmao.
Maybe this is a personal attack and someone can let me know about my debate tactics.
DNS over HTTPS is a trojan horse though. It removes user ability to route DNS traffic on their network meaning IoT devices can now break out of the cage I put them in. It also means that corps can now point to their own DNS and inject whatever they want into your query.
Oh for sure. I think that the correct approach is DNNSEC and DoT. I think DoH is really bad, but webshits only know literally one protocol and it's sending JSON blobs over HTTPS. But I'm not using it as a cudgel against Mozilla, just kind of giving up because the bigcorps are gonna get to control everything we do eventually anyways!!! sad foss noises
I've tried going back to Firefox, but there's just too many bugs. They also wasted ages "going their own way" only to finally recognise that "yeah ok chrome won that one", some of these things were obvious, it's been somewhat frustrating :(
I think he's insane in a Stallman sense. He may make some wild claims, but the overall effect of his open source work and advocacy is positive. Also, Sourcehut is awesome. Eat shit, Github.
