Not gonna look for articles if you call me a dipshit, dipshit.
There was talk from the FDA that they were going to effectively cancel third stage testing, to get vaccines out on time. That didn't happen. If one of the promising vaccines didn't have patients with unexplained illnesses, they might have.
I haven't been keeping track of the vaccines lately, as in, in the last month. If it goes through the trials, I'll take it. But if it looks like they removed some important steps to get it to market faster, I won't.
Knowing we're probably not engaging in good faith is enough for me to not want to put in the effort to engage in good faith. Looking up articles and research studies takes times.
This also creates an unspoken assumption that the vaccine is safe unless proven otherwise. Onus is on me to prove they're, maybe not even skipping steps, I never even said they were, as I won't know until a vaccine hits the market, but considering skipping steps.
Onus isn't on you to prove that an emergency authorization of vaccine use isn't removing any important steps regarding health and safety.
Therefore I get to do the effort and you get to shoot holes in it.
I don't like those terms.
The FDA already floated the idea of bringing vaccines to the market without completing third phase trials. Then, shortly after, patients in two studies, Astra Zeneca and Johnson & Johnson, started developing unexplained symptoms. That's enough for me to be uncomfortable.
This also creates an unspoken assumption that the vaccine is safe unless proven otherwise.
Pretty much, yeah, as it should be. I trust those who develop and research and test vaccines to do it properly because there are already quite extreme rules and regulations surrounding that entire process intended to make the outcomes safe. If you want to start sowing distrust in the process which makes vaccines safe, you'll need to show some goddamn evidence.
I mean you won't actually, because I'm already being downvoted here for taking a pro-vaccine stance, so you antivax weirdos are apparently taking over. We're fucked.
Yep, the same rigorous process that all vaccines go through before they are released. The same rigorous process the covid19 vaccines are going through. That's why when the vaccine is released, we can be reasonably sure it will be safe. Thank you for agreeing with me and giving up your antivax bullshit.
Wow scary, i guess the case is closed, covid vaccines are untrustworthy form here on out
A substance isn’t automatically safe because it calls itself a vaccine.
Right. A vaccine is safe when it is proven to be safe through testing. Which is what's going on right now. Or are you just going to pretend they're not doing any testing?
Are your lobes mirror smooth or are you intentionally trying to misunderstand me?
So, you're saying that there's no way whatsoever, that either market pressures, the federal gov't, or both, can even potentially rush through a vaccine? Like, it's physically impossible? Can't ever happen, ever?
So, you’re saying that there’s no way whatsoever, that either market pressures, the federal gov’t, or both, can even potentially rush through a vaccine? Like, it’s physically impossible? Can’t ever happen, ever?
It could happen, sure, but there would be plenty of evidence that it had happened because there would be steps in the testing process which they would have to skip. As a result, during the vaccine's release, doctors everywhere would basically be shouting from the rooftops "DONT TAKE THAT FUCKING VACCINE"
Doesn't seem like rushing something through like that would work very well to me.
doctors everywhere would basically be shouting from the rooftops “DONT TAKE THAT FUCKING VACCINE”
It's not like there hasn't ever been incidents of money influencing research. Even outside of pharmaceuticals there's been:
Fracking, the effects of sugar on heart disease, greenhouse gasses, secondhand smoke, I know there's more.
With opioids, the science was technically never on the companies' side, yet they still managed to make it appear as if it was, even creating a fictitious label of "opiophobe" to pressure doctors into using them. They didn't have to influence the actual studies. They just had to influence the medical profession, and they did.
In all these instances, there wasn't any screaming from the rooftops. There were a smattering of professionals in their respective fields showing caution or concern, then getting shut down, usually through vicious personal attacks. And it took years for the sunshine to work its way in.
Unsafe medication isn't ahistoric, but a shouting from the rooftops is.
People are concerned that the three companies in a trenchcoat we call the US will put out a rushed, ineffective vaccine to get all us working pigs back into the pens faster. A pretty reasonable concern for anyone who's read a history book. You decided to take that and twist it into "anti-vax".
Do you get into a lot of arguments everywhere you go?
Not gonna look for articles if you call me a dipshit, dipshit.
There was talk from the FDA that they were going to effectively cancel third stage testing, to get vaccines out on time. That didn't happen. If one of the promising vaccines didn't have patients with unexplained illnesses, they might have.
I haven't been keeping track of the vaccines lately, as in, in the last month. If it goes through the trials, I'll take it. But if it looks like they removed some important steps to get it to market faster, I won't.
Simple as that.
thats a cop-out
Knowing we're probably not engaging in good faith is enough for me to not want to put in the effort to engage in good faith. Looking up articles and research studies takes times.
This also creates an unspoken assumption that the vaccine is safe unless proven otherwise. Onus is on me to prove they're, maybe not even skipping steps, I never even said they were, as I won't know until a vaccine hits the market, but considering skipping steps.
Onus isn't on you to prove that an emergency authorization of vaccine use isn't removing any important steps regarding health and safety.
Therefore I get to do the effort and you get to shoot holes in it.
I don't like those terms.
The FDA already floated the idea of bringing vaccines to the market without completing third phase trials. Then, shortly after, patients in two studies, Astra Zeneca and Johnson & Johnson, started developing unexplained symptoms. That's enough for me to be uncomfortable.
But you do you.
Pretty much, yeah, as it should be. I trust those who develop and research and test vaccines to do it properly because there are already quite extreme rules and regulations surrounding that entire process intended to make the outcomes safe. If you want to start sowing distrust in the process which makes vaccines safe, you'll need to show some goddamn evidence.
I mean you won't actually, because I'm already being downvoted here for taking a pro-vaccine stance, so you antivax weirdos are apparently taking over. We're fucked.
AGAIN, A VACCINE ISN'T SAFE BECAUSE IT'S A VACCINE.
IT'S SAFE BECAUSE IT WENT THROUGH A RIGOROUS PROCESS.
Yep, the same rigorous process that all vaccines go through before they are released. The same rigorous process the covid19 vaccines are going through. That's why when the vaccine is released, we can be reasonably sure it will be safe. Thank you for agreeing with me and giving up your antivax bullshit.
FDA head considered ending phase three trials early and rolling out vaccines ahead of time under emergency use authorization.
This was before two studies were halted due to unexplained illness.
Of one of the studies that was halted, AZD1222, there's still controversy amongst scientists that it restarted prematurely.
A substance isn't automatically safe because it calls itself a vaccine.
Wow scary, i guess the case is closed, covid vaccines are untrustworthy form here on out
Right. A vaccine is safe when it is proven to be safe through testing. Which is what's going on right now. Or are you just going to pretend they're not doing any testing?
Are your lobes mirror smooth or are you intentionally trying to misunderstand me?
So, you're saying that there's no way whatsoever, that either market pressures, the federal gov't, or both, can even potentially rush through a vaccine? Like, it's physically impossible? Can't ever happen, ever?
It could happen, sure, but there would be plenty of evidence that it had happened because there would be steps in the testing process which they would have to skip. As a result, during the vaccine's release, doctors everywhere would basically be shouting from the rooftops "DONT TAKE THAT FUCKING VACCINE"
Doesn't seem like rushing something through like that would work very well to me.
If it gets released by an emergency use authorization, it, by definition, is skipping steps.
good thing that hasnt happened then, eh?
Yeah, because we don't have a vaccine yet.
But if it's an EUA one, whenever it does land, you take it first and I'll wait a few months.
It's not like there hasn't ever been incidents of money influencing research. Even outside of pharmaceuticals there's been: Fracking, the effects of sugar on heart disease, greenhouse gasses, secondhand smoke, I know there's more.
With opioids, the science was technically never on the companies' side, yet they still managed to make it appear as if it was, even creating a fictitious label of "opiophobe" to pressure doctors into using them. They didn't have to influence the actual studies. They just had to influence the medical profession, and they did.
In all these instances, there wasn't any screaming from the rooftops. There were a smattering of professionals in their respective fields showing caution or concern, then getting shut down, usually through vicious personal attacks. And it took years for the sunshine to work its way in.
Unsafe medication isn't ahistoric, but a shouting from the rooftops is.
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and then you jump in and act like im being unreasonable
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Nice strawman, dumbfuck.
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At no point in your whining redditor posts did you mention the proletariat or bourgeoisie. Yes, we are indeed fucked thanks to liberalism!
You're being downvoted for being a rude cunt.
calling out antivax bullshit as antivax bullshit is not rude
People are concerned that the three companies in a trenchcoat we call the US will put out a rushed, ineffective vaccine to get all us working pigs back into the pens faster. A pretty reasonable concern for anyone who's read a history book. You decided to take that and twist it into "anti-vax".
Do you get into a lot of arguments everywhere you go?