If China has socialism with Chinese characteristics, then what characteristics will America have? (assuming it goes that way)
We don't know, because work has not even begun to build the institutions and culture of the proletarian counter-society that must step into the vacuum left by the eventual destabilization and dissolution of bourgeois society.
The new society develops within the old one, and is shaped by its contemporary and historical conditions. To even begin to have an idea of what the nature of a post-capitalist American socialist society will look like, we would have to analyze the pre-revolution counter-society that takes form to carry out the revolution. That basically doesn't exist. The limited organizing that still operates largely reliant on the spontaneous and incoherent outrage of the masses still operates on the terms and within the framework of the bourgeois state and society.
Liberation theology (Christian) will be a huge component if America ever does go socialist. A sense of national pride will be a component as well meaning that internationalism will be turned into adding more states to the country, willingly if this is actually a socialist America.
Tbh, Sometimes I think this is the only chance we have. I feel like the only or the best way to make communist claims appeal to my family is to coat them in religious language and Christian values. The right and the bourgeoise have weaponized Christianity against the proletariat and we probably have to take those “weapons” back from them.
It's the old saying: "When socialism comes to America it'll be wrapped in the flag and waving a bible."
Sinclair Lewis was a lib and he was trying to keep Huey Long out of the Presidency with the same overwrought pathos Democrats excrete to this day. Of course he'd say that. It's his class interest.
Hopefully not the flag bit though. 😬
Unless we can foster a somewhat more healthy patriotism based on like...John Brown and labour organizers or something and pair it with decolonization.
Also you can wave the Qur’an and stuff too, obviously.
It'd be pretty easy. "Folks, this is the greatest country in the world, and we need to demonstrate that! Anyone who wants to become an American, and any nation that become part of America should have the ability to do so. Welcoming more people into our fold will strengthen us and strengthen them. Through the divinely inspired concept of solidarity, we will liberate the working class in a global America. One nation and one class under God!
They're trying to #cancel the NT. They've largely succeeded.
internationalism will be turned into adding more states to the country
Korenizatsiya but for Wyoming and Idaho lol
Basically China's economy at best. Dressed up business unionism at worst.
Portraying the political project of SwAC as a continuation of the Union and Civil War, aiming to not just rectify the failures of reconstruction, but go further.
The Internationale is sung at the beginning of sporting events. And other extra performative bullshit, but for socialism (with American Characteristics).
Christianity is used to justify and support SwAC, isn't like a state religion or anything. A lot of political speeches include James 5 1-6 for instance.
Big "important" yearly elections for useless executive level positions so that Americans can perform their civic duty as much as possible.
Imo, American socialism (as distinct from the US just becoming a European-style social democracy) would look very different to that in contemporary China, because a revolution in the US would mean a drastic transformation of the global economy. Unlike China, a socialist US wouldn't have to negotiate a position within an existing and powerful neoliberal world order. The pivotal role that the US plays in the global economic and political order would mean that an actual socialist revolution in the US would likely kick off numerous other revolutions across the globe, as well as bolstering the power of those already in existence. Genuine socialism in America would probably mean the beginning of a global socialist revolution because it would completely fracture the established forces of reaction and prove that revolutions are possible in rich, developed nations.
What form this would take is incredibly difficult to imagine, because it would involve the creation of an entirely new paradigm. However, I'm not sure about the idea that liberation theology would provide the basis for it. In my view, the fundamentalist Christian right are likely to be the last vanguard of the capitalist status quo in the US and are likely to provide the base of the forces of reaction in any revolutionary moment.
In my view, the fundamentalist Christian right are likely to be the last vanguard of the capitalist status quo in the US and are likely to provide the base of the forces of reaction in any revolutionary moment.
Well of course fundamentalists on the right will be part of the forces of reaction, but we also don't need Christians reluctantly siding with them or staying neutral because they are convinced a socialist government will kill them or something.
Better to show them a way out that allows them to retain their relationship with God then abandon them to these forces imo. A Chinese example would be the Three Self Movement I dunno if I would handle it exactly like this, and maybe a better more comparable example would be with a more dominant religion in the country, but I think it shows that religion and more specifically Christianity doesn't have to be a counter-revolutionary force.
For sure and I'm not American, so don't really have much understanding of the dynamics of American Christianity other than in its most prominent expression as evangelicalism. I still wonder if liberation theology would play a terribly prominent role because my sense is that progressive forces in the US are largely secular, but this is a hypothetical scenario that would involve a pretty radical transformation of American society in order to make it possible, so I feel like it's pretty difficult to speculate on its exact cultural composition.
Liberation Theology specifically isn't huge in the US rn.
In the past and still today (though overshadowed by right-evangelicalism in terms of political power now) there existed a "Christian Left" that supported the "Social Gospel" but this was mainly liberal and amounted to support of labour unions and policies to alleviate poverty and so on.
Idk how movements work, I imagine to a certain extent these things naturally arise, so it's possible when an actual revolution becomes possible there won't be a huge need for LT or things like that to win people over. Even if it's not a huge aspect of this organizing or movement building I don't think we should completely abandon using religious language when talking to certain demographics or embracing religious people sympathetic to socialism.
Definitely. We should talk to people in language they relate to.
I've been thinking for a while that we'll probably have to appropriate a lot of American symbolism and iconography and try to twist American "founding ideals" to fit socialism, because unfortunately most of the masses in this country treat that shit like sacred religious dogma.
I somewhat agree, but I feel like "we" would have to be careful about it.
I think the idea of the American Revolution can be good in gaining support for the idea of Revolution more generally and in a socialist/marxist context can even some-what be supported as a kind of "bourgeoise revolution".
But we also can't push alot of these harmful founding myths under the rug, or how it relates to Native Americans, African Americans, or even people who don't own property. If we can get Americans to understand the AR was "good", but not some wholey good act from our genius founders who had perfectly noble intentions...if we can get them to understand it had it's faults (to say the least) and alot of people still suffered because of it....maybe they could be convinced to look more kindly on historical communist revolutions, but that might be wishful thinking on my part.
This is a POSITIVE THINKING thread. DOOMERISM will be DOWNVOTED.
Yep, and such a movement will pick up some wins here and there I'm sure, but completely fail to establish any sort of socialism on a national scale. I could see the West coast going all in on it though, and such an ideological divide could destabilize the US even further ("is that the Leninists' music??")
Socialism with fascist characteristics.
One might call such a ruling party the National Socialists
Haven't you heard? No one can even say the word "socialist" in US politics anymore. They'd be the National Nationalists.
So far, you will have a “socialist” running for the president, and he will give up the election midway.
There are two socialist parties that never get anything done because of infighting
two party system that includes anarchists and communists, with a whole duplicated union structure for communist and anarchist aligned unions and cooperatives
So basically our current system but with more insufferable infighting between the two parties
