Not much of a struggle to be had really.
Sex work(ers) = Good
Pornhub = Bad
Couldn't the argument be made that pornhub is entitled to at least some profits for providing distribution infrastructure? I mean sure let's nationalise PornHub, but someone still needs to run the servers.
I used to think that sex work is inherently bad, but after becoming friends with a number of sex workers they changed my mind. Some people genuinely enjoy doing sex work. They like making porn, erotic art and stories, doing erotic dancing and performances, and having sex with people who struggle to experience it otherwise. People aren’t going to stop wanting to create and do this stuff under socialism
Obviously, sex work under capitalism is subject to all the same problems of other work under capitalism along with plenty of its own unique horrific kinds of exploitation, but it’s not bad in itself.
It's not bad in itself but you will definitely see way less of it in the transition period if for no other reason than that most of it can be done by hobbyists in their spare time while other socially necessary work absolutely HAS to be done or society collapses. Just like creating trinkets is in no way comparable to heart bypass surgery, as adorable as those trinkets may be.
Not at all surprised to see another person saying “I support sex workers but not sex work” as just a cover for not actually supporting sex workers, complete with disingenuous bullshit pretending that sex work and sex trafficking are the same.
This is the exact same shit as when people say “I support Chinese people but not the Chinese government” and “I love the sinner but hate the sin”. Support sex workers, full stop.
That’s not even close to being true, and even if it were it still doesn’t make sex work inherently bad.
Love when the argument devolves into simple counter-assertions and thought-terminating clichés.
Has been known to keep CSEM uploaded as well as proven rape videos. People upload a lot of revenge porn on it or screenrecord camgirls/onlyfans material and upload the shit for free.
Isn't the last stuff basically like piracy though? Or more precisely like pirating from small/indy developers?
Like comparing it to pirating a cheap game on Steam? if that's what you mean, I think it's a huge false equivalence. Pirating a small video game doesn't ruin someone's live. Someone's webcam sites material getting leaked to a larger audience can have severe consequences like ostracization, being fired, etc. Pirating a small game isn't the same
Low effort memes with struggle session in the title should be banned from this website, I swear
No struggle session here, pornhub is a terrible site that has kept up rape videos and revenge porn with millions of views. And that's not mentioning keeping the girls do porn channel up during all the accusations that were eventually proven true. Also most mainstream porn just sucks, has anyone actually tried to watch a brazzers video or similar from start to end? Most cheesy boomer shit ever, it's just terrible.
While this is a serious subject with a complicated answer, this is a political compass meme so I elect to ignore it.
There's nothing wrong with sex work that wouldn't still be a problem if you took out the sex part.
There could be one thing though, OnlyFans type sex work is like freelance, the ultimate gig economy.
It is possible to pay workers less if they have a side hustle to sustain themselves.At that point it starts intersecting with patriarchy and objectification in ways that can become extremely exploitative.
Yeah they can both die in a fire as far as I'm concerned. Labour is labour and it's always degrading. We're always selling our bodies for something, and the fact that true sexual liberation has been co-opted by a shitty movie industry that pressures people into doing shit they don't really want to do for money and ruins lives is Not Great. Some women feel very empowered by being in porn and that's fantastic and great, but until women (and men) can truly own the product of their own bodies it's always going to be bad. Sex workers are comrades all the way, the people that employ them not so much.
PornHub is not Netflix. They're more like YouTube, complete with a bunch of pirated commercial content that's deliberately obfuscated to avoid the robocensors. Until we have Ministries of Health and Culture nurturing erotic artists, emancipation for the individual who wants to mutually aid others by broadcasting sexy energy and enjoying the return energy flow is to be found in the interstices of bourgeois society.
PornHub is owned by the same people that own the biggest porn studios in America, and most of the commercial content on PornHub is 3-minute clips intended to sell subscriptions.
Netflix does not depend on advertisement, so they are not part of the attention economy, and are not promoting other companies and their messages.
An effect of this is clearly seen in how Netflix is LGBTQ friendly while YouTube demonetizes so very much.Also this does not sound so bad: https://www.sagaftra.org/sag-aftra-and-netflix-announce-historic-contract
Good points and well met. A lot of my thinking on this issue is mixed up with objection to the propertization of ideas and culture.
First, I think we agree it's not the specific platform that's the problem, but the details of the arrangement. I'll try to clarify my reservations and criticisms. I support avenues for amateur content, posted in a mutual spirit, asking only for non-monetizable affirmations in return. To me, that suits the definition of mutual aid. I don't support the professionals like Kink.com creating videos as speculative vehicles. My support for online am-pros filling up Clips4Sale with their own personal capital is heavy with contingencies rooted in present material conditions. I can support live shows in principle, since the labor is live and uncrystallized, but I can't support the private sin-tax by strip club owners' profit-taking, whether virtual or down the street. Owner/performer clip store co-ops would be optimal from a labor interest, but the capitalization of what is effectively a derivative of the personal body, which is in a weird way a form of private property, plays into the neoliberal "human capital" framing and gives me pause (or is it buffering).
As to exploitation, Netflix or Kink.com, qua McDonald's, produce lots of exclusive but problematic OC as a paid service. PornHub and YouTube offer a usable service to the general public for lateral cultural distribution, with a lighter, more probabilistic, but still firm Wall Street editorial touch where Thou Shalt Not so much as mention sc*t if you want to have a merchant account next month. If it weren't for the pandemic they're trying to turn into an endemic right now, I'd be much happier if people went outside and got properly and thorougly laid.
There's a strategic goal I really don't want to put up for struggle right now, but there is the fact of the enemy actively attacking the left's lines of communication and coordination, otherwise we'd be at brunch on reddit right now. It wouldn't be the first time in modern history people have had to hide political resistance behind the pressure valves of taboos even the reddest in tooth and desiccated in crotch bourgeoisie dare not cross too publicly for fear of risking blowback and an own goal.
Really I just want that sweet, candle-lit North Korean amateur light-femdom clip with that respectful intermission of a portrait of the Supreme Leader tastefully enshrined on the nightstand.
Sex work is work but not all work is created equal in terms of its societal usefulness.
PornHub also has plenty of revenge porn that people desperately contact admins to remove but get ignored until months later when it has millions of views. :capitalist-laugh:
What's that? They want people to lowkey distribute political propaganda on their service? :mao-shining:
I don't think you can generalise like that. A lot of sex workers are basically equivalent to the lumpen proletariat in that they act in accordance with a "hustle mentality", don't provide much of socially necessary labour (if any at all) and aspire to become porn producers themselves, exploiting new talent in turn.
There's nothing wrong with working, just exploitation of workers.
This doesn't make much sense to me. If its legal to be a prostitute but illegal to hire a prostitute, will it not be impossible for a prostitute to get legal work?
Pornhub and companies that exploit young sex workers (and fucking host child trafficking) =awful
sexworkers= epic, good
there is a difference between street sex work that isn't protected and need to be vs. online sexwork that do have safer distance between clients. try not to mix them up, we need to decimalize and properly unionize SWs tbh
extremely cold take: the mainstream porn industry sucks shit and is definitely exploitative. people selling nudes on onlyfans, nsfw artists, a dude uploading a vid of himself jerkin it, anything in that vein? those are all fine. in addition, the mainstream porn industry would be fine if they weren't extremely exploitative of the actors; there's nothing inherently wrong to porn, just in its current state it's wildly unethical to give them money.
ezpz
there needs to be a worker coop porn website that only takes as much as operating costs require from oc creators and requires everyone who uploads to not send videos from an outfit
This is easy. Judgement over sex work is speculating on the conditions of poverty. Were as we know those conditions aren't quantifiable.
