Joining the military is bad. Excluding trans people for bigoted reasons is also bad.
Getting rid of the ban on trans people from the military is fine. I'm glad there will be less institutionalized transphobia. I do not think trans super-soldiers are some trump card for the US military.
the take wasnt about that tho, it was that joining the military is good for trans people and also it was ignoring the implications of being in the miitary
Yes it's about how libs can only accept certain things as long as they come with the military, ie implicitly supporting imperialism. Someone posted a thread yesterday, I think, of libs fawning over Sikhs and Indians because they joined the military. Rather than just accepting them because they're human beings who deserve dignity and not to be harassed. It's "How dare you be racist towards a Sikh, they serve in the military don't you know!" They can't just refute racism on the grounds of it being racist. They can't refute transphobia the same way. It's gotta be attached to some support of the existing power structures, the particularly oppressive ones at that.
not to mention, for every trans chud who got blocked from enlisting, there's about four trans chicks sighing that they're not getting draft cards. myself included lmao
That wasn't the take either though I appreciate that this is a more good faith comment. The take I actually had was that most trans people join because they have literally no other choice and not joining it means they will die, either in the streets as a homeless trans person like so many do or via suicide caused by their condition and economically trapped circumstances surrounded by dangerous people that prevent them from dealing with their condition safely.
i understood the point you were trying to make, that Trans people were let to join the military because of the shitty material conditions and i get that , but i just cant excuse imperialism, to me joining the US military is one of the worst thing someone can do, because it futhers their oppression against the global south, the place were i was born and raised, and i know that the US military Lies and uses the terrible conditions of their own people to get more cannon meat with promises of a better life, but i just cant justify joining them, they are the reason my country had a dirty war for decades and they have destroy entire nations just for profit, they are just evil, i just cant justify anyone joining them
Ok but.. How old were you when you gained all of this knowledge and how did you gain it?
16-21 year olds are not a group well known for their deep understanding of socialist theory, a clear understanding of imperialism and why it is the primary contradiction in modern revolutionary theory, nor why the US are even "the bad guys".
Not only are we asking waaaaay too much of a kid that regularly gets text messages telling them to join, but that kid is surrounded by people that prevent them from addressing their need to transition and there are literally no other avenues for these kids to escape the economic entrapment that keeps them in bumfuck nowhere town of 5000 population full of racists and transphobes.
It's asking way too much. And that was my point -- that saying "fuck the troops" without nuance is fundamentally unfair to the people that end up in it, end up unhappy about being in it, and end up with guilt for having been in it. I don't see them as guilty, I see them as abused victims of a system intentionally designed to take advantage of people in exactly this way.
Fuck the military, fuck what it stands for and its goals as a tool of the bourgeoisie, but a lot of the troops, especially the trans ones, are victims of a horrific system and the entrapped circumstance of their lives.
Ok but… How old were you when you gained all of this knowledge and how did you gain it?
13/14, mexican history books, they dont shy away from the shit the US has done
16-21 year olds are not a group well known for their deep understanding of socialist theory, a clear understanding of imperialism and why it is the primary contradiction in modern revolutionary theory, nor why the US are even “the bad guys”.
i wasnt a socialist back then, and not even a leftist
Not only are we asking waaaaay too much of a kid that regularly gets text messages telling them to join, but that kid is surrounded by people that prevent them from addressing their need to transition and there are literally no other avenues for these kids to escape the economic entrapment that keeps them in bumfuck nowhere town of 5000 population full of racists and transphobes.
i understood that from your comment in the other post, but as i said i just cant justify it, as for the one that feel guity about it they are victims too but they also further imperialism while they were in the military, and i dont think they should be excluded from the left because they joined, but joining the US military is a mistake just like being a alt-right in the past and that should be acknowledge or else you are just gonna exclude any person from the countries victim of US imperialism.
Joining the military is bad. Excluding trans people for bigoted reasons is also bad.
Getting rid of the ban on trans people from the military is fine. I'm glad there will be less institutionalized transphobia. I do not think trans super-soldiers are some trump card for the US military.
Counterpoint
I was thinking about that while writing my comment lmao
the take wasnt about that tho, it was that joining the military is good for trans people and also it was ignoring the implications of being in the miitary
Yes it's about how libs can only accept certain things as long as they come with the military, ie implicitly supporting imperialism. Someone posted a thread yesterday, I think, of libs fawning over Sikhs and Indians because they joined the military. Rather than just accepting them because they're human beings who deserve dignity and not to be harassed. It's "How dare you be racist towards a Sikh, they serve in the military don't you know!" They can't just refute racism on the grounds of it being racist. They can't refute transphobia the same way. It's gotta be attached to some support of the existing power structures, the particularly oppressive ones at that.
not to mention, for every trans chud who got blocked from enlisting, there's about four trans chicks sighing that they're not getting draft cards. myself included lmao
they sure as hell didnt get the memo for me then
i turned 18 during the ban, never got anything. shrug
If the US needs soldiers, you will be drafted.
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That wasn't the take either though I appreciate that this is a more good faith comment. The take I actually had was that most trans people join because they have literally no other choice and not joining it means they will die, either in the streets as a homeless trans person like so many do or via suicide caused by their condition and economically trapped circumstances surrounded by dangerous people that prevent them from dealing with their condition safely.
i understood the point you were trying to make, that Trans people were let to join the military because of the shitty material conditions and i get that , but i just cant excuse imperialism, to me joining the US military is one of the worst thing someone can do, because it futhers their oppression against the global south, the place were i was born and raised, and i know that the US military Lies and uses the terrible conditions of their own people to get more cannon meat with promises of a better life, but i just cant justify joining them, they are the reason my country had a dirty war for decades and they have destroy entire nations just for profit, they are just evil, i just cant justify anyone joining them
Ok but.. How old were you when you gained all of this knowledge and how did you gain it?
16-21 year olds are not a group well known for their deep understanding of socialist theory, a clear understanding of imperialism and why it is the primary contradiction in modern revolutionary theory, nor why the US are even "the bad guys".
Not only are we asking waaaaay too much of a kid that regularly gets text messages telling them to join, but that kid is surrounded by people that prevent them from addressing their need to transition and there are literally no other avenues for these kids to escape the economic entrapment that keeps them in bumfuck nowhere town of 5000 population full of racists and transphobes.
It's asking way too much. And that was my point -- that saying "fuck the troops" without nuance is fundamentally unfair to the people that end up in it, end up unhappy about being in it, and end up with guilt for having been in it. I don't see them as guilty, I see them as abused victims of a system intentionally designed to take advantage of people in exactly this way.
Fuck the military, fuck what it stands for and its goals as a tool of the bourgeoisie, but a lot of the troops, especially the trans ones, are victims of a horrific system and the entrapped circumstance of their lives.
13/14, mexican history books, they dont shy away from the shit the US has done
i wasnt a socialist back then, and not even a leftist
i understood that from your comment in the other post, but as i said i just cant justify it, as for the one that feel guity about it they are victims too but they also further imperialism while they were in the military, and i dont think they should be excluded from the left because they joined, but joining the US military is a mistake just like being a alt-right in the past and that should be acknowledge or else you are just gonna exclude any person from the countries victim of US imperialism.
Fucking hell most people were still learning about masturbation and starting to share porn with each other at my school at that age.
i still think i was i little to young to know that the massacre of tlatelolco was a thing that happen
I mean its wrong technically but like I do not want to be drafted lol.