We all know how the most mild criticisms of Israel always gets blasted as anti-semitism, and a common defense is to make a distinction between anti-semitism and anti-zionism (or it would be a common defense if everyone didn't just bend the knee and apologize). That's all well and good, but the thing is, anti-zionism (as I understand it) implies opposition not just to the currently existing state of Israel, but to any Jewish state. And I'm not sure that's what I actually believe. Like, ok, maybe the concept of an ethno-state is not a great idea but I mean Jewish people were and are a vulnerable minority, so maybe it's not the worst idea to make an exception.
So, ok, Germany did the Holocaust and also started and lost WWII, so naturally they should've been the ones to give up a chunk of their territory to form the new state, right? That seems like the most fair. But maybe putting a Jewish state right next to where all the Nazis were is a bad idea (not that the actual location has been particularly peaceful for them). Alright, how about, like, Nebraska? Kansas? South Dakota? There's plenty of fertile, mostly empty land out there, just send in some construction crews, give 'em some development grants, call it a day. I'm sure you can find some big corporate farms that would be willing to sell, you don't have to get like the whole state, just a big continuous area, they've done it before for national parks and such. Hell, it might not be great for the environment (not that all the conflicts are either) but you could honestly just let them have a national park or national forest to develop. Totally doable!
Not only should they have put an Israel in one of those places, but they should also still do it, now, and just move the old one. Free relocation grants to all Israeli citizens, to be paid out of current military aid, same with development grants. Seems to me like everybody wins! I'll be happy to support Israel and to stop doing BDS and all that jazz, the Jewish people get their own state that doesn't have Palestinians to deal with and there's not gonna be anybody firing missiles (unless you think the Kansans are gonna get frisky), and the Palestinians get their land back, a major source of conflict will be removed from the Middle East, like, I'd be willing to trade Kansas for all that. I feel like most people would, honestly.
Obviously it could never happen because the point of Israel isn't to provide a home for the Jewish people, but to serve as the forward base of the West and pursue the ghouls' interests in the region and it would have to go through them. But it's a way to look at the whole narrative differently and might help maintain sanity in the face of all the gaslighting.
I will now open it up to everyone for your best meme answer (or serious answer) to the question: where should Israel be instead?
I'm semi-serious. I think what I proposed would be less bad than what we have now. I also don't think anyone should be forced to live anywhere, to be clear. Ofc ending racism and capitalism would be ideal but that's not going to happen overnight. I'm not unsympathetic to the argument of state that could serve as a safe refuge, though that argument was ofc stronger in the wake of the Holocaust than it is now. To be honest, I don't really have a strong preference between an Israel in Kansas and no Israel, like if there was an Israel in Kansas maybe it would still be less than ideal but it certainly wouldn't be a priority for me by any stretch of the imagination.
Will here's a map from 1945 of Proposals for a Jewish state so please take your pick
Personally my favourite is either the rectangle in the middle of Southern Australia, or the Alaska/Yukon Artic oceanfront property. In both cases a State of Israel would displace, probably, 50 people max.
Excited to hear everyone's thoughts
I vote 10 just so that we can spice up the "Free Tibet" discourse which has frankly gotten pretty stale imo.
10 is on the right track, but if we move it just a little bit to the South we could get it right into the middle of Jammu and Kashmir, which is objectively the funniest outcome as the only option with the potential to be even more of a clusterfuck than it is now.
There is an old Jewish story in which God tells Moses to take his people to Canada, but Moses is hard of hearing and thinks He said Canaan.
Indigenous people would probably have something to say about that
Maybe, but I'll bet you could strike a deal. Maybe since we're establishing an independent state in US territory anyway, we can allow reservations the right to declare themselves as autonomous states, and/or we could return some land to them as part of an agreement.
this is a bit, right? it's their god-damned land and we've promised to return it so many times that this must be a joke. not to mention that the same thing played out in the real world in Palestine and why the fuck would this be any different.
we’ve promised to return it so many times
What? Have we? Does anyone seriously think this is going to happen?
why the fuck would this be any different.
Are you... are you seriously suggesting that Native Americans are going to start launching missiles if the US buys up land from big farms and moves Israel there? Why aren't they firing missiles now then? What, is it like, "We're fine with our land being stolen, so long as you keep using it, if you give it to someone else we'll riot." What universe is that?
What? Have we? Does anyone seriously think this is going to happen?
in the form of reservations with autonomy, yes.
Are you… are you seriously suggesting that Native Americans are going to start launching missiles if the US buys up land from big farms and moves Israel there? Why aren’t they firing missiles now then? What, is it like, “We’re fine with our land being stolen, so long as you keep using it, if you give it to someone else we’ll riot.” What universe is that?
this take is nuclear. "it's ok to parcel out settler-colonial states where the colonized have been so thoroughly genocided that they no longer fight back as effectively"
I'm saying stop with the fucking colonialism.
Well damn you know I thought I could fix my car by changing out a tire but I guess not because that doesn't also end all racism and completely abolish the US so that means it's a bad idea that won't work.
this is more like "my car is on fire so let's move it into the burning house". nothing has changed about either the car or the house.
Lol, if this solution would mean "nothing has changed" then your standards for what constitutes meaningful change are absurdly high. Literally the entire Israel-Palestinian conflict would be resolved, but the US doesn't immediately abolish itself and return all land to natives, so fuck it, lmao.
the israeli/palestinian conflict isn't "solved" by changing "palestinian" to someone else, god damn. the overt and flashy violence isn't the sum total of the violence inflicted.
"what if we just, like, moved the conflict...maaaan"
Literally your entire argument is, "We should just let the perfect be the enemy of good." As long as that's the mindset you're in there's nothing I could possibly say to convince you of anything, on this subject or any other.
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