There are strong and persuasive arguments that state violence and patriarchy respectively preceded class historically, and that inclines me to think that class isn't neccessary the anchor a lot of old school marxists make it out to be.
Edit for clarity: class is one of the most important axis of struggle, and cannot be abandoned. I'm saying that the struggle against patriarchy and state violence need to take equal precedence.
I would argue that the complete avoidance of class among progressives during the 2010s led straight to the rising fascism we see today.
Yeah, class is the method with which patriarchy/racism is enforced under the capitalist mode of production.
Absolutely, it's not because of capitalism and class structure that people are assholes, it's just that the class structure takes those issues and bakes them into the very fabric of our society at an institutional scale.
I think they're saying that women of all classes in society experience sexism, not just poorer ones, not that patriarchy existed prior to the existence of class. They've written it in a confusing manner though
As far as I understood it patriarchy was actually a result of class society, and prior to its emergence societies were typically egalitarian, as evidenced by many of the societies that were encountered by European colonists. A Marxist anthropologist and feminist named Eleanor Leacock wrote about this in the 80s, in a book called Myths of Male Dominance, here is a short article about her work. Also I don't really understand how you would be able to abolish patriarchy if it really was inherent to humans, wouldn't always stick around in some sense?
Defining gender was the original division of labor, the idea that women should rear children and thus reproduce the social relations in a primitive society is the original class divide. Engels describes this well in the Origin of the Family, Private Property, and the State.
These concepts aren't distinct struggles. Class is the base and gender is a superstructure of that base. Struggling against gender based oppression is also struggling against the way capitalism exploits gender to reproduce class relations.
Patriarchy perhaps, but I'm not sure you can even have a state without class division, let alone state violence.
Nevertheless, even if racism etc are superstructure we still need to fucking fight it.
There's a hypothesis for the beginning of the state that goes as follows:
Sedentary communities are often surrounded by nomadic raiders sustain themselves in part off the products made by the sedentists.
But, raiding too often is unsustainable, so they'd keep track of who they'd raided, and the collections became more routine. For various reasons, the nomadic raiders would settle down as a ruling class.
So in this account, the state doesn't emerge to manage class contradictions, but as a form of class rule.
That's...interesting...matches some things like the Nordic invasions of England etc.
But once the raiding is formalised, that's kind of an immediate class contradiction in production isn't it?
i grew up poor and did landscaping when I was younger. one day I was at this rich dude's house and heard him talking with his other shithead friends about women in a misogynist way and it immediately pushed me to be the opposite of those men. a lot of my dude friends, gay or straight, but mostly upper-middle class, have awful views regarding women. I've even gotten in fights with guys because I didn't like how they talked about women lol. idk it just bothers me how men can recognize class but refuse to recognize the patriarchy
yeah i mean i think if my dad played a larger role in my development i probably would've ended up as like a stupidpol freak or a libertarian. both of my parents are sort of "anti-establiahment" and my dad voted for Nader. but he also has a weird misogynist streak
Death to brocialism, death to Stupidpol, death to reductionism, death to manarcho-brollectivism
to the people downvoting this, show yourselves cowards :stalin-shining:
I upvoted, and I'm wondering what is causing such a weird level of controversy for the OP post and also some very seemingly non controversial comments.
Part of the image could be seen as conflating the idea that "class comes first" with "class is the only thing, shut the fuck up about being a woman, just do socialism lmao like just own the means of production haha you dumb b*tch" and that might be the source of at least some of the fighting, and is a fair point of contention.
But there's also seemingly some people defining "feminists" as somehow inherently separate from "socialists," which is freaking me out- like they're conflating liberal feminists with just the word feminist, like what the fuck.
Like, uh, dudes, a lotttt of socialists 80 years ago weren't fuckin feminist at all, you still need to specifically draw that distinction, yes socialism is a good environment for feminism and often has it kind of packaged together, but not necessarily, and yes you do need to consciously cultivate it separately.
Just like racism btw, you could turn everyone in America socialist but there are people who use white supremacy as literally, actually their religion, which simply uses Christian symbols. And they will be instinctively and obsessively attacking black people all the way to gay luxury space communism. The foundation was the profit motive but it has transcended the need for that foundation.
Until I saw the beard guy mention class, I thought the comic was about biden apologists.
Real socialism is when you ignores the problem of 3.8 billion humans. The more you belittles and perpetuates reactionary values on those 3.8 billion humans, the more socialister it is. And when you disenfranchise those 3.8 billion humans, that's communism.
I won't lie, I called women b!tches """ironically""" until I got a girlfriend and realized how mad it makes me when dudes call my girlfriend, or any of my women friends, a b!tch even when they're """ironic""". It's also when I started bullying me friends for saying shit like that, and when I realized how shitty my dad is.
But I have never called a woman "sweetie" or anything shitty like that. My biggest thing is that I say shit like "yeah man" when talking with women and immediately realize many women probably don't appreciate that. I've also been accused of mansplaining, and instead of dismissing that I try to have a conversation about how I came across like that so I don't do the same in the future.
But my mom was my main role model / caretaker as a child so I learned about the patriarchy at a young age, and my dad's a piece of shit. I think it's what started my path towards radicalization
this pic makes me thankful the internet isn't real life so i havent had to meet these caricatures in real life. i also avoid people though so that might help.
yea when i see shit like this wonder if it was a bunch of usernames on the internet that said it or if it was said to their face. 90% of chapo is quite fine as far as i can tell, but i guess we can focus on the 10% of chuds who chose to make an account here to be douchebags. Socialists say sweetie? i didnt know they were a server at a Waffle House.
Socialists say sweetie?
The only time I've seen this is when they are making fun of libs who say it.
