**USSR Economy **
The USSR had commodity-production and wage labor i.e workers working for salaries and then buying stuff with that money. Commodity production means making things to be sold, rather than to be used immediately. Firms in the USSR, post-Stalin had pseudo market-type reforms i.e they had to take loans from the state, pay interest, had to be profitable and there even was a type of psuedo competition between the state enterprises, but at the same time they had to follow the plan set by the state. This is what people mean by state capitalism.
The USSR had many problems mainly because they were emulating capitalism without the key ingredient that causes capitalism to be productive : real competition between capitalist. The market style reforms also made planning difficult as firms had to follow the plan while being profitable at the same time. Technological development was slow as the economic incentives didnt work as intended. For example, shutting the firm down for retooling meant loss of revenue. Firms would rather work with old inefficient methods than shut down to upgrade their technology.
Even during Stalin's time, the USSR had wage-labor, commodity production etc, but the major difference was that capital goods were mostly allocated based on their use-values rather than their exchange values, meaning that capital goods were mostly not treated like commodities. Some Marxist economists believe this is the secret behind the phenomenal economic growth during Stalin's time. The conversion of peasants into urban workers also played a role in economic growth, but this is not unique to socialism.
Interestingly, in 1965, Che Guevara studied Stalin's economic methods and wanted to implement Stalin style socialism(where the state operated as a single enterprise) rather than Khruschev style socialism(pseudo market reforms, marginalist economics etc). Unfortunately he died in 1967. To the best of my knowledge, Cuba did not adopt that model.
Now most people wont consider any system without private ownership and competition as capitalism, but Marxists understand capitalism as more than that : capitalism is generalized commodity production. Imagine if Amazon and Walmart merge and take over the entire market of distributing consumer goods. So now, anything that you buy will come from Walmazon only. In this scenario, Walmazon becomes so powerful, it can become the state, and it operates without competition. It can control who gets what, plans where to set up shops, who gets what jobs etc. Now imagine the US govt takes ownership of Walmazon. Now you have the People's Republic of the USA. But nothing has fundamentally changed, from private Walmazon to Peoples Repubic of USA, in the way commodity production occurs. There is no private property and no competition. But the basic capitalist system : producing commodities, wage-labor, buying and selling stuff etc would still exist. This hypothetical system would be somewhat similar to what USSR, China, Vietnam etc all had before their full capitalist restoration.
The USSR's experience was as long as commodity production existed, you have to create rational incentives for economic growth. These incentives rapidly converge into market-style reforms. This is the ironic reason why the USSR collapsed. They didnt realize that the problems they were facing was due to such reforms, and the more they reformed, the more problems they had. The additional problems were assumed to be because of central planning rather than the reforms, so they further increased reforms. Near the end of the USSR, they had a massive shadow economy, slowing economic growth and excess military spending. The shadow economy generated a shadow capitalist class, who came out into the open with the collapse of the USSR as its new ruling class.
** China's politics **
There was a lot of debate in the 1970s China about the economic strategy, and they came to this conclusion : that China needed to develop productive forces rapidly by any means necessary. The "return to capitalism" under Deng, was really a return to private property and real competition from state ownership and no competition. From an inefficient neutered form of capitalism to "true" capitalism.
However, the reform and opening up of China was fundamentally different to the reform and opening up of all the other third-world countries that still remain poor. China's massive market, their ability to build a competent infrastructure and relatively strong rule of law meant that they could extract concessions from capitalists, both foreign and domestic. From foreign capitalists, they "stole" technologies that enabled them to rapidly catch up. Their authoritarian state power meant that domestic capitalists couldnt do whatever they wanted like in the USA, but have to follow state mandates regarding the overall direction of development.
China's SOE(state owned enterprises) played a major role in this development that even Marxist economists havent fully figured out. Inspite of being generally inefficient and slower to respond than private enterprises, they played an important role in developing advanced industries that private firms would never have done due to lack of profitability involved, the massive investment and long term planning required. They worked to temporarily absorb unemployed and were a key part of the "commanding heights" that need to be controlled to ensure state power.
So China is unique in that it is a (mostly) free-market privately owned capitalist economy controlled by a (nominally) socialist ruling class. Now you might wonder, how do we know whether China's ruling class is truly socialist? The answer is not easy. One way to know, is to see which side they will take during a capitalist crisis, which China is yet to experience. Another way is to see their day to day actions, whether they benefit workers or capitalists. The recent shutting down of Ant financial was a massive blow to financial capital, its not something you would ever see in a capitalist country.
Also regarding their "imperialism", their African investments are the opposite of imperialism. China is loaning low interest loans to African countries, along with lending expertise, to build value-adding infrastructure in these poor countries. Even right-wing economist admit that Chinese investment is helping in ways that decades of western neocolonialism and "foreign aid" couldn't.
It is commonly admitted among the Western ruling class that they misjudged the nature of Chinese "return to capitalism". They had assumed that reforms would eventually bring the capitalist class back to power, and the experience of USSR, Jiang Zemin's and Hu Jinatos liberal rule, and general trend of history, further solidified their belief of the "end of history". Then Daddy Xi came in, reasserted the ruling role of the CPC and now you have the anti-Chinese manufactured consent on the Western consciousness as the ruling class has come to realize the true nature of Chinese capitalism.
Now comes the key question, will China ever move to "real socialism"? First it would be useful to understand what socialism is.
Real socialism
Socialism means the common ownership of means of production and free distribution of all goods. There is no salaries and so no wage-labor. No salaries means no money. No money means no markets. No markets implies no private property. No private property, no competition. And crucially, there is no commodity-production. All goods and services produced are produced for the purpose of consumption, not for exchange. This means that all production and distribution of goods and services is done consciously, according to a plan.
It is very easy to now understand, why the statement "true socialism has never been tried" makes sense, and also why it is not easy to simply do away with commodity-production in a world where trading between nations(and hence the reintroduction of commodity production) is necessary to attain a reasonable level of development.
Marx also believed it was possible to have a "lower form" of socialism, where instead of money, people received labour-vouchers that could only be exchanged for consumption goods (and hence cannot be used as money). This would continue until the productive forces were advanced enough to achieve an abundance of produce for all.
So will real socialism come to China soon? It will depend on the way China's capitalism evolves, and since the direction of Chinese capitalism is controlled by the socialist state, China has the possibility of socialism.
Edit: Under Stalin, firms that adopted new techniques were subsidized which led to fast dispersion of technological advancements.
Attacking the USSR and Stalin = cringe.
Anyway,
The USSR was not communist, but it was socialist. The means of production were entirely in state hands, and the state was directly controlled by workers. Soviets (workers councils) were the backbone of society, many citizens participated in co-ops, and in Stalin's era many citizens worked on collective communal farms.
China had things called "people's communes," which were literal communes; Mao probably got closer to full communism than Stalin, but Stalin was still one of the greats.
This of course doesn't even begin to go into the fact that the USSR had a very high HDI, super low illiteracy rates, no unemployment, some of the best doctors ever, etc etc. And today, Cuba performs similarly well to the USSR.
Yes of course, the USSR had capitalist elements, but it needed them to develop the means of production, as Marxist theory dictates. Russia was still in the feudal stage, and so was not ready to go to communism, it had to undergo some form of capitalism. Under Lenin and Stalin, the USSR had socialism - not communism, but socialism. While private property and markets were all but abolished, wage labor and commodity production still existed, yes - but that was needed. Why do you think Stalin put so much emphasis on increasing production? The USSR had to undergo rapid industrialization to be able to transition to communism, and the best way to do that without going full capitalist like Gorbachev or revisionist like Kruschev was through socialism, and common ownership of the means of production, and elements of communism, like communal farms and co-ops in public life. And of course, the soviets, which had huge influence over local politics and were literal workers councils, and socialist in principle and practice.
Yes, wage-labor and commodity production existed, but it had to in order for the USSR to be able to maintain socialism (and not fall into Kruschevite capitalist revisionism) while being able to develop the MoP to the point where they could go to communism.
Had Stalin weeded out more traitors like Kruschev, Yeltsin, and Gorbachev, the USSR would be a fully communist nation by now, or at least very close.
lenin :halal:
stalin :haram:
this is quite the statement
Nah, Stalin and Lenin are both cool, but I agree with the second part that we can't fall into Great Man of History bullshit where we think that just having good individuals in power and bad individuals out of power is sufficient to change the course of history.
Kruchshev's Secret Speech led to a major change in the world Communist movement. That speech was the decision of an individual, and it absolutely changed the course of history.
If the CPSU successfully purged Krushchev's bloc, and Stalin was succeeded by a pro-Stalin figure, the USSR would have been on a significantly different path.
"Great Man Theory" is a myth which claims Great Men are born with innate traits that lead them to historical prominence, and all history is the history of Great Men. It is not "when individuals influence the world."
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I don't actually disagree, individual actions can have an immense impact, but as you said, there was a bloc backing Khrushchev's actions, so merely purging Khrushchev alone wouldn't necessarily have changed what happened, as the political conditions within the CPSU may well have led someone else to carry out similar actions instead of Khrushchev. I was trying to get at the fact that the actions of individuals are almost always going to be the consequence of broader material and political struggles, or to put it another way, individuals who influence history on the level of Khrushchev are generally given that opportunity and subsequently supported in their actions by conditions that aren't completely under their control. So while Khrushchev started destalinization, the majority of the CPSU's power structure supported him in doing that, meaning that it wouldn't be correct to say that Khrushchev's actions as an individual were the only thing changing the course of history
tl;dr: you're right that the actions of individuals are very important in shaping history, but only when amplified by collective human action.
yes, exactly
Stalin was more socialist in his policies than Lenin was - ffs, Lenin created the NEP while Stalin pushed collectivization. How would Stalin be bad but Lenin good? Both of them are good.
didn’t Stalin away power from the Soviets and effectively give it to the party
Yeah democracy in the USSR on a country wide scale was basically not existent. Workers did not control their own production or the government. Now this does not mean there was not mass participation, but that participation was not democratic in any meaningful way beyond very local levels and it was heavily bounded (for example mass participation in the purges).
They voted on everything, and the local economies were run by workers councils, so long as it didn't clash with national goals of production. I can link numerous articles on soviet democracy if you'd like - all the officials were democratically elected.
No.
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