Looks like Socialist Alternative is going to try to make DSA form a workers party by having some of it's members join DSA.
Current DSA by-laws allow for chapters to expel members for being in Democratic Centralist organizations but its not automatic. It also seems like SAlt isn't telling their members to join en-masse, just a few to push for a new workers party at meetings.
My DSA chapter isn't happy about this but it seems like most apprehension seems to be from their experience with individual SAlt members, first and the rudeness of the tactic, second. But there seems to be little consideration of their goals.
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It persists from the 80s when DSA was explicitly anticommunist. Its not anymore but there is some rationale for not letting your organization become controlled by members more loyal to another organization.
We have a bunch of ex ISO members in our chapter who view having dual membership as being very rude.
Yeah, this is kinda making me think, it isn't an entirely unjustified rule despite the very bad anticommunist rules.
It should be replaced for sure. Something that leaves us open to DemCents but also protects against splitting and hostile takeovers. Something like:
Or something more specific. I think our politicians should be allowed to share membership with a DemCent organization. Just not our leadership because that's a conflict of interest.
That would fuck up a lot of chapters though. You need to basically just keep it as a rule that's applied by chapter majority. Having that be automatic would cripple smaller chapters because if DSA in an area only has 20 members, leadership is most definitely also leadership in other orgs.
SRA and DSA have a lot of leadership overlap here, we have a few PSL people, but they aren't really active in the chapter.
Hmm. Sounds like something that would have to be debated beyond forms.
Definitely. It's a chapter by chapter issue. I don't think national should really do anything with the existing law as it's not an automatic expulsion, but allows for wreckers to be kicked by vote.
I'm fine with one that bans dual carding for any org that acts in a way DSA deems collectively undemocratic or reactionary or demands they vote for measures that are not wholly originated in DSA (this is all kind of loose, but so is the demcent ban as is). Like If PSL sent members to some DSA chapter, and then voted to give that chapters funds to a front group of PSL, that should be banned.
DSA were cold war Anti-Marxists, they celebrated the end of the USSR. If anyone wants to point fingers at being an OP, well DSA is just as suspicious as CPUSA. Both are funnels of leftwing anger towards the Dems.
It was to try and prevent people from WWP and other sects coming in and wrecking chapters in the 80s and 90s like PL did to SDS. Preventing entryism is still a (but lesser as DSA is so much bigger than all other orgs now) concern and has been used in recent years to stop chapters from ending up as front groups. The original clause is from the New American Movement, one of the groups that merged with DSOC to form DSA. NAM was explicitly Marxist, but did not like the demcent model of the New Communist Movement groups and also was dealing with entryism into some of its chapters.
Another, imo bigger, concern is that since DSA is a multi-tendency org, democratic centralism serves no use as there are large contingents of DSA that are explicitly opposed to it like the LSC caucus which wants strong independence for the chapters, and people who would rather have the factions via the caucuses fight things out at the convention in a more public way than it would be if there was a demcent clause in the org that leads to splits. Like what happens if at the convention a political education proposal passes, well there's gonna be a massive amount of debate around what readings get put on that, and some chapters more dominated by different caucuses are not gonna like whatever comes out, do we kick those chapters out, I would say absolutely not. On the otherhand if a chapter ends up having a bunch of sex pests or plants or does terrible shit, national should vote to dissolve that chapter and deny it of resources. Some things don't need unity, others do.
Also the way US political parties work (and DSA is not a party in the technical sense), democratic centralism just doesn't make that much sense imo. State legislatures run party rules. There's also a few old new left people around that remember how bad some dem cent orgs got in the 70s and don't want to risk repeating that.
The fact that the bylaw specifically signals out dem centralist affiliations as a reason that can be used for expulsion specifically is pretty incoherent and needlessly antagonistic. Expulsion for outside interference can apply to any group that enters DSA including people from like the green party, democrats, etc. with the purpose of specifically making a front group or influencing internal affairs at the behest of a different outside group. If people from those groups can be stopped it doesnt make sense to then also signal out specifically dem centralism as another reason in it of itself. Also people should know DSA has no bylaws against dual carding with other orgs. People being outraged that socialists are joining a catch all socialist org seems silly to me. Did people just expect the 25+ other socialist orgs that exist to not eventually consolidate in certain ways once DSA grows larger in size?
I would support some changes to the clause, but the text
is imo not that bad. I see it as a tool in the toolbox for a chapter to kick someone out and discourage dualcarding in orgs that are opposed to how DSA operates. If someone in SAlt wants to join DSA, it should be because they think SAlt is not working and they need to try something else, they should not be torn between both orgs. It's a can clause, not a will. No chapter is just going to chuck someone because they're dual carding in like Solidarity, because Solidarity doesn't act to undermine DSA. Nor is someone dualcarding with SAlt going to be removed by their chapter unless they start shit. The only people that would get auto thrown out are like WWP members.
I could support changing the text to be something stronger though, like being under the discipline of a demcent organization historically antagonistic to DSA.
If you want to ban dual carding than submit that as a proposal, but since there is no such bylaw, it just feels like a bad faith argument. If someone is in a socialist org thats not too big and the local dsa chapter also isnt too big but growing faster, they could very well want to start getting involved with DSA too since for the most part we all undertake similar strategies. Also if there is a party that someone is more interested in and DSA doesnt really have people of that tendency or a local caucus or something beyond electoral someone might have a reason to join another org as well and work with them on different things than what dsa is doing. Why would we demand that person break ties and have to leave their org and the people they knew? Realistically that just discourages people from joining and it hinders growth.
I think that's a vanishingly small amount of people. I mean NYC DSA added more than 1000 people during the recruitment drive. That's more than the membership of every other socialist organization in the city. In my own chapter we've only ever had a single person ever that was torn between joining DSA and another org, and it was IMT. The smaller parties are not active except in large democratic cities, there's nowhere where the local PSL or SAlt chapter is larger than the local DSA one, or where the DSA one is small enough that it has no working groups outside of an electoral one and there's another org present in appreciable numbers.
Yeah but it varies from city to city, some dsa chapters just dont have what to offer to people like NYC does, and if people want for whatever reason to also be involved with a different party I dont see why that would matter. I just dont see how people see a downside to more socialists joining and organizing within DSA, or why we would deter people from doing that. I know people in the MC that are in DSA as well, i could certainly see it consolidating more if marxist caucuses in dsa grow further.
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