What's going on is that the Australian government has been talking a bunch of shit about their largest trading partner who makes up ~1/3rd of their exports. When they are responsible for buying that much of your GNP, you generally don't want to accuse them of doing COVID and being racist towards them. This is China reminding Australia of that. Will it hurt the working class more than other classes? Yes, probably, but you guys are also all required by law to vote, which means this is also the government your working class chose.
EDIT - the amount Australian cope trying to pretend that you didn't have the choice between racist neoliberals and neoliberals who say “If I’m P.M., I welcome the rise of China in the world,” is something else. Bourgeois democracy limits youe choices to the spectrum of politics that is acceptable to the bourgeoisie. It does't eliminate your options entirely. You can cry all you want about how "you had no choices", but you did have a choice between neoliberal parties that weren't going to antagonize your largest trading partner and ones that were, and you collectively chose the ones that were.
No my guy, but arguing that the people being affected by Chinese sanctions chose their government as an addendum to your statement just doesn't really add up to me
They are all compelled by law to vote. They absolutely do chose their government more than Americans do.
The populations are kept ignorant and the electoral systems curtail positive options.
And China should suffer through Australia saying they did COVID and promoting sinophobia because of that?
Maybe more than the US but that isn’t saying much. The Murdoch press has its fucking talons in that country and I don’t think a population deserves the repercussions of sanctions because they’ve been brainwashed.
As I said before, that isn't China's problem. This is a conflict between nation states. China can only choose to inflict repercussions on Australia as another nation state. How those repercussions are distributed internally within Australia isn't up to China, it's up the Australia and the Australian state.
I’m talking about assigning responsibility or deservedness for the sanctions within our discussion
Australian voters weren't forced to choose the neoliberal who were going to antagonize China. You had the option of other parties that weren't going to do that.
I understand what you are saying. You are talking about this in moralistic terms. I am not. Australian voters collectively made a choice to elect a government hostile to your largest trading partner. You undertook an action, and you are now experiencing the equal and opposite reaction. The argument you are making is like saying that you didn't deserve to get burned when you decided to touch the stove, but that's what happens when you touch the stove, and no one made you do it. You had the choice not to touch the stove.
They all voted, it is the voice of the populace as far as attitudes to China go. Australians had the option of parties that were friendly to their largest trading partner. They chose the ones that were hostile. This isn't like saying the choice was neoliberal vs neoliberal. Being cordial to the Chinese is well within the spectrum of Western neoliberal politics that is acceptable to the bourgeoisie. You can find "We should be nice to the Chinese" opinion pieces in Bloomberg, the New York Times, and the Wall Street Journal.
You are an absolute moron if you think "be cordial with your largest trading partner, even the Chinese" isn't within the spectrum of acceptable neoliberal politics put before voters.
I’ve gotta say, pretty ignorant to blame a disaffected working class worn down by years of propaganda carefully coordinated by anti-communist think tanks like the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.
This is the government your working class chose. No one compelled Australians to vote a specific way, and being working class doesn't preclude you from the repercussions of being reactionary imperialists.
Regardless of whether they are right to do so, they are essentially bullying the government into shutting up and punishing working class people who are not at fault. The only good I can see coming out of this is that Australia will have to back down, which in itself is a good thing, but it shouldn’t be a position they’re forced into through the suffering of working class people.
This is international politics between nation states. China is putting the screws to the Australian state. How the pain gets distributed is decided by the Australian state, not by China.
Politics isn’t about petty revenge porn, it should be about the material interests of the majority of people.
Politics is about power. China is reminding Australia who holds it in their relationship.
I'm not asking whether or not you believe all of your parties suck, I'm asking whether or not you honestly believe that you had no choice of one that wasn't going to do a racism against what is by far your largest trading partner?
I’d sure hope shorten wouldn’t do the same, I sure hope he wouldn’t holiday in Hawaii while the country’s on fire either.
Shorten was pretty obviously China friendly in the 2019 election.
And yeah, I dont believe that my choice, whether I have one or not, has much impact on whether our duly elected prime minister is racist or not.
It's not about your individual choice, it's about the collective choice of Australian voters. Collectively, you did have a say over whether or not you picked a government that would antagonize China.
Can someone explain to me the ramifications of these sanctions? I know that in theory they hurt the working class, but from what I've seen it's made the affacted goods cheaper. I imagine that it's hurt businesses but can someone explain how this hurts the majority of working class people?
If the restaurant owner down the street is a racist to you and accuses you personally of knowingly and intentionally giving other people COVID, are you going to keep buying food from him because his poor daughter needs braces?
Yeah but the Australian state is run by neoliberal assholes who aren’t going to do shit, and I don’t care about who’s fault it is that working people are going to suffer, I’d just rather it didn’t have to happen.
Well, this is China telling you to not elect the neoliberal asshole who is going to say they did COVID, because you did have that as an option in 2019.
Maybe so, but is this necessarily a good thing? Don’t want to sound like a lib, but I don’t like the idea of big countries pushing smaller countries around; I hate it when the US does it, and I’m not too fond of it when China does it either
Australia isn't a small country or a victim, and you aren't being oppressed because China decided to not buy your goods. They aren't under any obligation to buy your goods.
Believe me I don’t vote for them, but very few people in Australia know much outside of the liberal/conservative politics spectrum, and as I’ve already said, Australian people trust the media because and you would too if you hadn’t been radicalized, it isn’t the common sense position that the media bias against china is based in corporate interest, most people don’t have access to these ideas, please stop acting like actors in a bourgeois democracy are a reflection of the people who elect them
When I said "you", I didn't mean you personally, I mean Australian citizens collectively.
but very few people in Australia know much outside of the liberal/conservative politics spectrum, and as I’ve already said, Australian people trust the media because and you would too if you hadn’t been radicalized, it isn’t the common sense position that the media bias against china is based in corporate interest, most people don’t have access to these ideas
That's Australia's problem, not China's.
please stop acting like actors in a bourgeois democracy are a reflection of the people who elect them
They are a reflection of the people who elect them. You chose them. The same way Joe Biden and Donald Trump are reflections of the American populace.
What's going on is that the Australian government has been talking a bunch of shit about their largest trading partner who makes up ~1/3rd of their exports. When they are responsible for buying that much of your GNP, you generally don't want to accuse them of doing COVID and being racist towards them. This is China reminding Australia of that. Will it hurt the working class more than other classes? Yes, probably, but you guys are also all required by law to vote, which means this is also the government your working class chose.
EDIT - the amount Australian cope trying to pretend that you didn't have the choice between racist neoliberals and neoliberals who say “If I’m P.M., I welcome the rise of China in the world,” is something else. Bourgeois democracy limits youe choices to the spectrum of politics that is acceptable to the bourgeoisie. It does't eliminate your options entirely. You can cry all you want about how "you had no choices", but you did have a choice between neoliberal parties that weren't going to antagonize your largest trading partner and ones that were, and you collectively chose the ones that were.
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Are you honestly gonna sit here and try to argue that Bill Shorten would have accused the Chinese of doing COVID?
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They are all compelled by law to vote. They absolutely do chose their government more than Americans do.
And China should suffer through Australia saying they did COVID and promoting sinophobia because of that?
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As I said before, that isn't China's problem. This is a conflict between nation states. China can only choose to inflict repercussions on Australia as another nation state. How those repercussions are distributed internally within Australia isn't up to China, it's up the Australia and the Australian state.
Australian voters weren't forced to choose the neoliberal who were going to antagonize China. You had the option of other parties that weren't going to do that.
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I understand what you are saying. You are talking about this in moralistic terms. I am not. Australian voters collectively made a choice to elect a government hostile to your largest trading partner. You undertook an action, and you are now experiencing the equal and opposite reaction. The argument you are making is like saying that you didn't deserve to get burned when you decided to touch the stove, but that's what happens when you touch the stove, and no one made you do it. You had the choice not to touch the stove.
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They all voted, it is the voice of the populace as far as attitudes to China go. Australians had the option of parties that were friendly to their largest trading partner. They chose the ones that were hostile. This isn't like saying the choice was neoliberal vs neoliberal. Being cordial to the Chinese is well within the spectrum of Western neoliberal politics that is acceptable to the bourgeoisie. You can find "We should be nice to the Chinese" opinion pieces in Bloomberg, the New York Times, and the Wall Street Journal.
This is lowbrow. This suggests a very limited understanding of bourgeois power
You are an absolute moron if you think "be cordial with your largest trading partner, even the Chinese" isn't within the spectrum of acceptable neoliberal politics put before voters.
Even if Australians are compelled to vote it’s still a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Voting can’t change that structure
They got the fucking choice between people that were going to antagonize China and people that weren't.
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“If I’m P.M., I welcome the rise of China in the world,”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/15/world/australia/bill-shorten.html?0p19G=2103
The cope from Australians over the fact that "China friendly neoliberal" was a choice that you were actually given is truly something else.
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This is the government your working class chose. No one compelled Australians to vote a specific way, and being working class doesn't preclude you from the repercussions of being reactionary imperialists.
This is international politics between nation states. China is putting the screws to the Australian state. How the pain gets distributed is decided by the Australian state, not by China.
Politics is about power. China is reminding Australia who holds it in their relationship.
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Should China care about that?
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So you believe Bill Shorten would have accused the Chinese of doing COVID?
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I'm not asking whether or not you believe all of your parties suck, I'm asking whether or not you honestly believe that you had no choice of one that wasn't going to do a racism against what is by far your largest trading partner?
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Shorten was pretty obviously China friendly in the 2019 election.
It's not about your individual choice, it's about the collective choice of Australian voters. Collectively, you did have a say over whether or not you picked a government that would antagonize China.
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Can someone explain to me the ramifications of these sanctions? I know that in theory they hurt the working class, but from what I've seen it's made the affacted goods cheaper. I imagine that it's hurt businesses but can someone explain how this hurts the majority of working class people?
If the restaurant owner down the street is a racist to you and accuses you personally of knowingly and intentionally giving other people COVID, are you going to keep buying food from him because his poor daughter needs braces?
Well, this is China telling you to not elect the neoliberal asshole who is going to say they did COVID, because you did have that as an option in 2019.
Australia isn't a small country or a victim, and you aren't being oppressed because China decided to not buy your goods. They aren't under any obligation to buy your goods.
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When I said "you", I didn't mean you personally, I mean Australian citizens collectively.
That's Australia's problem, not China's.
They are a reflection of the people who elect them. You chose them. The same way Joe Biden and Donald Trump are reflections of the American populace.
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"Uhm, actually sweaty, the bourgeoisie hates trading with China and neoliberals would never ever do that."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/15/world/australia/bill-shorten.html?0p19G=2103