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My very broad and unprofessional grasp of it is that aus is a US puppet state. We’ve followed them into every war, we’ve headed this covid inquiry thing, we’re talking all high and mighty about human rights and trade relationships. For what?
and the only PM who questioned this was also the only PM to be removed, and by a Governor General who was friends with some CIA guy :curious-marx:
Western leftists need to stop using "muh western working class" as a crutch.
The Western working class is already the labor aristocracy and have repeatedly defaulted on their duty to overthrow the governments of the imperial core in return for paltry concessions.
I feel for the working class on Australia hurt by this move, however many working people around the globe will benefit from now increased exports to China, it's not like this is only a bad thing for workers if you're an internationalist
Short story
US told Australia that they needed to fight China but there would be sacrifices
Australia is the sacrifice
I dont think a country in history deserves to be punished like Australia.
Not only is all their trade with China - meaning Aus is spending billions on defence against their main trading partner - but theyve demanded access to China to "find out what happened with the virus" their military industrial complex is repeating Adrian Zenz propaganda and creating a few of their own conspiracy theories
All through this China has maintained a diplomatic face to insult after insult from a stupid racist backwater shithole
I think the last straw for them was when they tried to turn Australian war crimes into "demanding an apology from China for a low level official tweeting a piece of art depicting the very real war crimes done by australian soldiers in a country that neighbours China"
Australia can get fucked tbh
I dont think a country in history deserves to be punished like Australia.
Australia sucks in a lot of ways but come on. the US, France, UK, Belgium, Spain, Germany and all the other colonial powers done way more bad shit.
Yes but in this instance Australia is acting as a dog on a leash against its main trading partner against its own economic and material interest
They're economy is going to tank and they're gonna be squeezed by China because they so desperately want to be a poodle of the US
In this way, it is 100% deserved
fuck the US and we should definitely be less antagonistic to China too but we shouldn’t be their poodle either, should definitely stop Chinese Bourgeoisie buying our land and businesses. Not sure the CPC position on that is since i think it’s partly done to get money out of the country anyway
Australia is spreading state sponsored propaganda which is uncritically repeated in its private media companies, at the behest of its arms companies, for regime change in China
China is Australias largest trading partner. If the Australians want to shoot themselves in the foot for their incredibly poor leadership which is beholden to the US, the Murdoch empire and arms companies then they can get fucked
Read the below and let me know if you think any self respecting country in Europe/US or Canada would tolerate what Australia is doing let alone to the 2nd largest economy in GDP and number 1 economy in PPP
The Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) and Washington, DC-based Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) are the main institutions responsible for the forced labor studies. The reports have also relied heavily on an evangelical religious fanatic billed as the “leading expert” on Xinjiang, Adrian Zenz, who has said he is “led by God” on a “mission” against China.
Both ASPI and CSIS are right-wing, militaristic think tanks funded by US and Western governments, mega-corporations, and an eye-popping array of weapons manufacturers. As previously reported by The Grayzone, Adrian Zenz is a far-right fundamentalist Christian whose questionable but incendiary accusations against China have led to the Western press crowing him as the leading international “expert” on Xinjiang. Zenz’s most recent claims of “forced labor” were published by a “journal” founded and managed by US and NATO military operatives
The three reports relied upon in the recent “forced labor” media coverage are authored by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI), Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), and Adrian Zenz. While presented by the Western press as impartial, expert assessments, a closer look raises serious concerns about the biases and credibility of these “studies.”
While ASPI describes itself as a “an independent, non-partisan think tank” — a characterization that has been parroted by the Western press — it is, in fact, a right-wing, militaristic outfit that was founded by the Australian government in 2001 and is funded by the country’s Department of Defence.
ASPI is sponsored by a host of weapons manufacturers, including Raytheon Australia, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, MBDA Missile Systems, Saab AB, Thales, and Austalia.
Ironically, Australia’s Foreign Influence Transparency Scheme — enacted by the center-right Liberal Party to monitor alleged threat of “Chinese political interference” in the country — has revealed ASPI’s extensive sources of foreign funding, including the US State Department, UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO), government of Japan, and NATO.
ASPI blasted for being US lackey, promoting new Cold War with China
A recent profile of ASPI in the Australian Financial Review notes that the organization has “been accused of fomenting anti-China hysteria, to the alleged benefit of its benefactors.” ASPI has been so bellicose it has come in for criticism from major figures in Australian foreign policy circles.
Former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr has slammed ASPI for pushing a “one-sided, pro-American view of the world”, while the former Australian ambassador to China Geoff Raby added that ASPI is “the architect of the China threat theory in Australia”.
Australian Senator Kim Carr of the Labour Party has echoed the criticism of ASPI, condemning the think tank for seeking to “promote a new cold war with China” in collaboration with the US. In a February 2020 parliamentary session, Carr warned that “[i]n parts of the [Australian] defence and security establishment, there are hawks intent on fighting a new cold war” with China, highlighting ASPI’s extensive funding from the US State Department’s Global Engagement Center, headed by former CIA officer and Navy fighter pilot Lea Gabrielle.
ASPI’s ‘forced labor’ report relies on far-right blog of religious fanatics
The ASPI report presents no original evidence from workers who have been forced to work in this program, but cites anonymous “testimonies” from an obscure, far-right online blog. Called Bitter Winter, the blog is a project of the Center for Studies on New Religions (CESNUR), an Italy-based organization that opposes what it calls “anti-cult terrorism”.
Bitter Winter and its parent organization have vigorously defended fanatical Chinese religious movements including Falun Gong and the Church of the Almighty God, or Eastern Lightning. The latter is a Chinese-Christian sect which believes that Jesus Christ has been reincarnated as a Chinese woman currently living in Queens, New York.
Eastern Lightning is notorious for mass kidnappings, assaults, and murderous violence against perceived “demons” or non-believers, including bludgeoning a woman to death for refusing to give recruiters her phone number in 2014. During the 2019 Israeli elections, Buzzfeed reported that Twitter suspended dozens of Hebrew-language accounts run by the cult for “amplifying political messages for right-wing [Israeli] politicians.”
CESNUR has also taken up the cause of the Japanese doomsday cult, Aum Shinrikyo which was responsible for the 1995 Tokyo sarin gas attack. CESNUR board member J. Gordon Melton was paid by Aum Shinrikyo to travel to Japan to document alleged human rights violations against the group.
CESNUR founder, Massimo Introvigne, is the editor-in-chief of Bitter Winter. Introvigne is an ultra-conservative religious zealot who contends that Christians are “the most persecuted group in the world” due to abortion, gay marriage, and hate speech laws which he contends supress their religious freedom.
Introvigne considers communism to be an existential threat to religion, writing that “[n]egotiating with Beijing is like the proverbial supping with the Devil.” Introvigne regularly appears in videos produced by Church of the Almighty God/Eastern Lightning advocating on their behalf and claiming the cult is the victim of “propaganda” and “fake news”.
Introvigne has deep roots in the religious far-right, and was a long-time member and former vice president of the Italian organization Alleanza Cattolica, participating in the group from 1972 until 2016. During his time with the organization, Alleanza Cattolica advocated for Chilean military dictator Augusto Pinochet to be released following his arrest in the UK; denounced the progressive World Social Forum as a “laboratory for subversion”; and endorsed the Northern League, a far-right, anti-immigrant, Islamophobic political party, in Italian elections.
The “director-in-charge” of Bitter Winter is Marco Respinti, a far-right Christian conservative who describes his work as “devoted to serve and protect the Western heritage of life, liberties, and property” and working towards a society of “limited government, free enterprise, natural family, and traditional moral values.” Respinti is a Senior fellow at the Russell Kirk Center for Cultural Renewal and a founding member of the Center for European Renewal, two ardently conservative organizations, and editor-in-chief of the anti-gay, anti-choice publication International Family News.
https://thegrayzone.com/2020/03/26/forced-labor-china-us-nato-arms-industry-cold-war/
Didn’t know the ASPI was funded by weapons manufacturers, these people don’t even pretend do they. Australia is fucked
It really is, in any kind of world wide climate shit hits the fan scenario Australia is going to be hung out to dry badly, no chance America or the UK is going to go out of their way to help if they are struggling themselves and Australia is constantly shitting on its actual neighbors.
Regardless, I can’t help feeling like this is China’s way of bullying us into submission
Good. I hope China will bully Australia into returning all stolen land to the Aboriginal peoples and paying them reparations in full with interest.
This thought just struck me but I’m not very knowledgeable on Chinese history—is there a similar group of indigenous people in China in a way? Or is that line way more contiguous for them. If you know
Uhh, if you recognize the ROC, then the Han Chinese in Taiwan have gone and done a colonialism and decimated the native people on the island.
Basically, Australia has been doing this to China for the past six years. China only started retaliating once Australia started burning all the diplomatic bridges. China’s saying, ‘you can fuck around in trade, or in diplomacy, but not in both’.
It’s also worth noting what the ‘coercion’ is over: all matters relating to China. It’s not like China’s demanding Australia implement austerity measures, or sell off state assets. It’s regarding discrimination against Chinese investment and diplomatic stances against China’s internal affairs. To the working class, these matters aren’t at all relevant. So what if Huawei is allowed to compete against the likes of Ericsson to build 5G? So what if Australia doesn’t take stances on China’s internal affairs?
me sowing: Economic warfare and sanctions are fine.
me reaping: Jesus no, no that. We are Anglos.
What's going on is that the Australian government has been talking a bunch of shit about their largest trading partner who makes up ~1/3rd of their exports. When they are responsible for buying that much of your GNP, you generally don't want to accuse them of doing COVID and being racist towards them. This is China reminding Australia of that. Will it hurt the working class more than other classes? Yes, probably, but you guys are also all required by law to vote, which means this is also the government your working class chose.
EDIT - the amount Australian cope trying to pretend that you didn't have the choice between racist neoliberals and neoliberals who say “If I’m P.M., I welcome the rise of China in the world,” is something else. Bourgeois democracy limits youe choices to the spectrum of politics that is acceptable to the bourgeoisie. It does't eliminate your options entirely. You can cry all you want about how "you had no choices", but you did have a choice between neoliberal parties that weren't going to antagonize your largest trading partner and ones that were, and you collectively chose the ones that were.
Are you honestly gonna sit here and try to argue that Bill Shorten would have accused the Chinese of doing COVID?
No my guy, but arguing that the people being affected by Chinese sanctions chose their government as an addendum to your statement just doesn't really add up to me
They are all compelled by law to vote. They absolutely do chose their government more than Americans do.
The populations are kept ignorant and the electoral systems curtail positive options.
And China should suffer through Australia saying they did COVID and promoting sinophobia because of that?
Maybe more than the US but that isn’t saying much. The Murdoch press has its fucking talons in that country and I don’t think a population deserves the repercussions of sanctions because they’ve been brainwashed.
As I said before, that isn't China's problem. This is a conflict between nation states. China can only choose to inflict repercussions on Australia as another nation state. How those repercussions are distributed internally within Australia isn't up to China, it's up the Australia and the Australian state.
I’m talking about assigning responsibility or deservedness for the sanctions within our discussion
Australian voters weren't forced to choose the neoliberal who were going to antagonize China. You had the option of other parties that weren't going to do that.
I understand what you are saying. You are talking about this in moralistic terms. I am not. Australian voters collectively made a choice to elect a government hostile to your largest trading partner. You undertook an action, and you are now experiencing the equal and opposite reaction. The argument you are making is like saying that you didn't deserve to get burned when you decided to touch the stove, but that's what happens when you touch the stove, and no one made you do it. You had the choice not to touch the stove.
They all voted, it is the voice of the populace as far as attitudes to China go. Australians had the option of parties that were friendly to their largest trading partner. They chose the ones that were hostile. This isn't like saying the choice was neoliberal vs neoliberal. Being cordial to the Chinese is well within the spectrum of Western neoliberal politics that is acceptable to the bourgeoisie. You can find "We should be nice to the Chinese" opinion pieces in Bloomberg, the New York Times, and the Wall Street Journal.
This is lowbrow. This suggests a very limited understanding of bourgeois power
You are an absolute moron if you think "be cordial with your largest trading partner, even the Chinese" isn't within the spectrum of acceptable neoliberal politics put before voters.
Even if Australians are compelled to vote it’s still a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Voting can’t change that structure
They got the fucking choice between people that were going to antagonize China and people that weren't.
“If I’m P.M., I welcome the rise of China in the world,”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/15/world/australia/bill-shorten.html?0p19G=2103
The cope from Australians over the fact that "China friendly neoliberal" was a choice that you were actually given is truly something else.
I’ve gotta say, pretty ignorant to blame a disaffected working class worn down by years of propaganda carefully coordinated by anti-communist think tanks like the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.
This is the government your working class chose. No one compelled Australians to vote a specific way, and being working class doesn't preclude you from the repercussions of being reactionary imperialists.
Regardless of whether they are right to do so, they are essentially bullying the government into shutting up and punishing working class people who are not at fault. The only good I can see coming out of this is that Australia will have to back down, which in itself is a good thing, but it shouldn’t be a position they’re forced into through the suffering of working class people.
This is international politics between nation states. China is putting the screws to the Australian state. How the pain gets distributed is decided by the Australian state, not by China.
Politics isn’t about petty revenge porn, it should be about the material interests of the majority of people.
Politics is about power. China is reminding Australia who holds it in their relationship.
But to say it was choice
So you believe Bill Shorten would have accused the Chinese of doing COVID?
I'm not asking whether or not you believe all of your parties suck, I'm asking whether or not you honestly believe that you had no choice of one that wasn't going to do a racism against what is by far your largest trading partner?
I’d sure hope shorten wouldn’t do the same, I sure hope he wouldn’t holiday in Hawaii while the country’s on fire either.
Shorten was pretty obviously China friendly in the 2019 election.
And yeah, I dont believe that my choice, whether I have one or not, has much impact on whether our duly elected prime minister is racist or not.
It's not about your individual choice, it's about the collective choice of Australian voters. Collectively, you did have a say over whether or not you picked a government that would antagonize China.
Can someone explain to me the ramifications of these sanctions? I know that in theory they hurt the working class, but from what I've seen it's made the affacted goods cheaper. I imagine that it's hurt businesses but can someone explain how this hurts the majority of working class people?
If the restaurant owner down the street is a racist to you and accuses you personally of knowingly and intentionally giving other people COVID, are you going to keep buying food from him because his poor daughter needs braces?
Yeah but the Australian state is run by neoliberal assholes who aren’t going to do shit, and I don’t care about who’s fault it is that working people are going to suffer, I’d just rather it didn’t have to happen.
Well, this is China telling you to not elect the neoliberal asshole who is going to say they did COVID, because you did have that as an option in 2019.
Maybe so, but is this necessarily a good thing? Don’t want to sound like a lib, but I don’t like the idea of big countries pushing smaller countries around; I hate it when the US does it, and I’m not too fond of it when China does it either
Australia isn't a small country or a victim, and you aren't being oppressed because China decided to not buy your goods. They aren't under any obligation to buy your goods.
Believe me I don’t vote for them, but very few people in Australia know much outside of the liberal/conservative politics spectrum, and as I’ve already said, Australian people trust the media because and you would too if you hadn’t been radicalized, it isn’t the common sense position that the media bias against china is based in corporate interest, most people don’t have access to these ideas, please stop acting like actors in a bourgeois democracy are a reflection of the people who elect them
When I said "you", I didn't mean you personally, I mean Australian citizens collectively.
but very few people in Australia know much outside of the liberal/conservative politics spectrum, and as I’ve already said, Australian people trust the media because and you would too if you hadn’t been radicalized, it isn’t the common sense position that the media bias against china is based in corporate interest, most people don’t have access to these ideas
That's Australia's problem, not China's.
please stop acting like actors in a bourgeois democracy are a reflection of the people who elect them
They are a reflection of the people who elect them. You chose them. The same way Joe Biden and Donald Trump are reflections of the American populace.
"Uhm, actually sweaty, the bourgeoisie hates trading with China and neoliberals would never ever do that."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/15/world/australia/bill-shorten.html?0p19G=2103
why should China take Australia's shit? For some fucker in Queensland whod sooner see them blown to kingdom come? Also you're whingeing about them not buying your coal anymore? Come talk to me when they start bombing you
edit: in retrospect I apologize for being a bit mean. I understand you were trying to make an internationalist argument, since the working people have no country. Unfortunately we still operate under the realpolitik/nationalist framework, where political actors see everything as a zero sum game and any perceived or real slight that's ignored results in losing face. So China had to show Australia that it was not one to mess with, lest its reputation is damaged. Even if innocent ppl in Australia are harmed.
MMT doesnt exist
Its not a real monetary policy in isolation.
African and South American countries cannot print money to wealth and they cannot deficit spend to wealth - the IMF and World Bank would never allow it
The MMT crowd have it backwards - the reason the US can have an almost unlimited amount of government debt is precisely because they have the worlds largest military and they siphon off the worlds economy: from the petrol-dollar to ImF and Worldbank which indebts countries then ships their natural resources for pennies on the dollar to the US to forcing countries to purchase their garbage arms equipment like fighter jets etc
Michael Hudson exolains here how the US even gets its 'allies'(captive nations) to pay for its wars
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=paUgY6SGlgY
Why MMT is trash
https://thecommunists.org/2020/10/22/news/theory/modern-monetary-theory-magic-money-tree-harpal-brar/
States can create money - that is true
But they cannot ensure that this money has value. Value, which is created in production.
Whilst money, representing abstract labour, can only hold the value in an economy of a productive economy
MMT is petit bourgeois nonsense which tries to substitute class struggle with bourgeois voodoo
Whats more most "money" is created by banks in the form of credit or loans to investors and consumers
And since when have banks, who are privately owned, ever ran in the interest of society as a whole
Whats more we've seen this year the US print money like theres no tomorrow.
6 trillion $ and yet the people are lining up at food banks
States can create money (which only stores abstract labour value represented by a productive economy) but they cannot ensure this money is used productively
The West has been on a printing money spree since 2008 (not even to mention this year in Trump admin hopes to stave off s recession until after the election)
This money has not gone back into production as reinvestment which shows through the rubbish GDP growth throughout the West. It has mostly gone into the stock market
So States can print money but they cant dictate the value of that money nor can they dictate if that money is even used
What Australia needs to do now is to have a socialist government that understands MMT so that they can deficit spend to save the Australian economy while decoupling itself from relying on China or the United States.
No, what Australia has needed to do from day one is return full sovereignty to the aboriginal people, along with paying reparations in full with interest.
Socialism cannot be built upon the bones of colonized peoples.
