He hasn't been posting about $1200 as much, is he gonna back down to the dems like he always does?
he'll fold, if he was ever going to take a stand it would have been not dropping out against Biden
When you've lost, and when the DNC is committed to marching people to the polls in a pandemic the longer you hold out, what would a stand accomplish besides literally killing people?
The question here is similar: what might realistically be gained, and how much suffering would the attempt cause?
Just drop out and run as an independant in the general election
Aren't there "sore loser laws" that prevent this sort of thing?
those would also cause him to become a spent force, politically. The man has had a long career and the reason he has is because he capitulates when he needs to. You may not like it, but you can go support all the other leftist politicians who didn't and don't have careers anymore instead
Why would I care more about Bernie's career than the trajectory of towards power for the working class lmao
if I thought bernie suicide bombing the DNC to no affect would advance the cause of the working class I'd be right on board with you but seeing as we're still getting gains from his advocacy I'd say him not having done that years ago was a good thing, as now
Running as an independent wouldn't have won. It's highly likely it would have spawned decades of bitterness towards the left, too -- look how long Ralph Nader was used to browbeat spoiler candidates.
Sometimes there are no good options. That's what losing gets you.
the shit was rigged from the start. i love the guy but if he couldn't see that it was rigged he's fuckin blind. if he wanted to actually have an impact on how things are he should have endorsed a third party, and when people blamed him for trump's victory he should have said "fuck yeah we did that, and if you don't move left we'll do it again."
He could have, at the very least, not continued campaigning for Biden after the fact.
It's true. The neoliberals are out there selling rope by the mile
Tbh I think the only thing standing in his way is his age and questionable health.
And how his brain is a pile of oatmeal mush. People are being optimistic when they say its gonna be Trump 2024, were getting someone way worse.
I think he would have acted like a FDR if I’m power, but without the idea of “saving capitalism” like FDR said his greatest achievement was. Even though he is a dem soc at best (or another?) he at least knows what needs to be done to continue the “economy, market, world capital, etc” and his positions and support behind his movement would at least allow the left at minimum a kids seat at the table.
Not saying I’m pro electoralism, but I base myself off of Lenin in terms of getting into bourgeois politics to party build and gain grassroots support.
Am I wrong in thinking that Bernie would have saved not only the democrat party but also stabilized capitalism?
I cannot think of a more damning indictment of Sanders.
Sanders represented an existential threat to parasitic corporate consultants who staff the party apparatus and leech money off it. A Sanders win would have destroyed the Democratic Party as we knew it, it would have become something different that only shared the name.
Yes. Social democracy is capitalism's strongest life support system.
Social democracy is more like eating a large meal before you go out and get super drunk vs slamming vodka shots on an empty stomach. You're gonna pay for it the next morning either way.
Communism is when you stop after 3 drinks and hit the blunt instead.
real Hunger Chancellor hours, not looking forward to it
ps: search Heinrich Brüning, they still sing weird german nursery rhymes about him starving people, and we get to have Biden for twice the length of time :agony-acid:
I knew about the Hungerkanzler, but I don't know or seem to be able to find a nursery rhyme about him... Do you have a link (preferrably to the original German version)?
This was in The Coming of the Third Reich by Richard Evans, pg 254:
"Wait a while and just you'll see,
And Bruning will come up to you
With the ninth emergency decree
And make mincemeat out of you."
It doesn't have the german, there is a citation attached to it but I don't have access to it because I only own excerpts of the book due to capitalist malarkey you could maybe find it there?
Am I wrong in thinking that Bernie would have saved not only the democrat party
Bernie would have gotten blown the fuck out in the general election, and it would have set back Leftist politics in the US by at least 5 years, if not 10.
but also stabilized capitalism?
Capitalism is global now, and beyond the US's control. Bernie, in some miracle land where he won and was able to enact any of his agenda, at all, would at the very least make things less miserable, both for Americans and abroad. Would it have stabilized Capitalism? No, because the rate of profit would still go down. The business cycle wouldn't disappear. It would likely make things better for the Left when the next crisis happened, though, because his Presidency would "break the seal" and re-teach the population things like:
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Class consciousness. Americans weren't always completely well-behaved, good cucks for their boss.
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Solidarity with the global working class. Opposition to the Vietnam War was equal or stronger among older people than the youth in the late 60s!
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The fact that the government is in fact capable of doing things. Ever since Saint Reagan came on the scene with his infamous wit and charm, we've accepted as a society that anything done collectively or through the State is doomed to fail. This is a huge mental block that has to be
All three of those things can be done without the President, of course. But having someone in the Exectuive Branch who actively champions those ideas speeds up the process.
Bernie would have gotten blown the fuck out in the general election, and it would have set back Leftist politics in the US by at least 5 years, if not 10.
you've been on reddit too long.
Lmao, Reddit is the place full of delusional idiots who think Bernie would have won.
Bernie probably would have won in 2016. There's no way he would have won in 2020. Biden barely won thanks to moderates who would have taken any excuse to not vote for Sanders. It's pure cope to say Bernie would have won because saying otherwise is admitting that Chuck Schumer was right.
shitty take. bernie would have won easily had he not been screwed in the primary this cycle. the entirety of the reason that biden won was because "he's not trump." even centrists admit he's a fucking demented fossil and they only voted for him to spite donald trump.
the entirety of the reason that biden won was because “he’s not trump.” even centrists admit he’s a fucking demented fossil and they only voted for him to spite donald trump.
This is exactly my point! If Bernie would have run, those centrists would have said "well Trump is bad, but Bernie is just too much, I just don't know, it's all bad". Centrists also outnumber progressives, by a lot, remember that. People like progressive policies, in theory, but trusting a politician to do something is very different from voting for say, a tepid minimum wage increase (which does exactly what it says, period).
Bernie would have not picked up any extra votes compared to Biden, but he would have lost those centrist votes. How does fewer votes translate to a win?
i think that your conclusion that 'those centrists would have said "well trump is bad, but bernie is just too much" is the wrong conclusion considering the "vote blue no matter who" thing was shoved down everyone's throats two years before the election, and also doesn't take into account the youth vote, the spite vote that voted for trump because bernie got screwed, and even some trump voters who just hate corporate business as usual politicians but wouldn't be half as put off by bernie's populism.
the wrong conclusion considering the “vote blue no matter who” thing was shoved down everyone’s throats two years before the election
And if Bernie was the nominee, the messaging would have changed immediately. These people have no sense of shame or morals.
doesn’t take into account the youth vote
The youth vote is irrelevant, and all young people cucked for daddy Joe anyway.
, the spite vote that voted for trump because bernie got screwed, and even some trump voters who just hate corporate business as usual politicians but wouldn’t be half as put off by bernie’s populism.
All of those people are gone. They were a potential vote for Bernie 2016. In 2020, they are fully MAGA or QAnon, or at the very least, they are the people bitching about Covid lockdowns and such. They aren't there like they used to be, especially after the Bernie campaign got taken over by the AOC-crowd this time (those people are toxic to the mythical "disaffected non-voters"). The second that people shit on Bernie for going on the Joe Rogan show, it was obvious that his chances were zero.
the only people that shat on bernie for going on joe rogan were idiot libs on reddit, where you spent way too much of your time.
And those people are a poison pill. How do you tell them to shut the fuck up? You can't because those "idiot libs" are the Leftist base!
Nah, delusional "progressives" can't accept that Chuck Schumer was more correct about the American electorate than a bunch of DSA kids.
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this reads completely differently depending on whether you're responding to the title or the bottom text
Bonus reading - now imagine it's said sarcastically in response to either statement.
I don't consider it backing down when you get half of what you wanted. Something is better than nothing, right?
Just read about that. I'm not happy, but I'm not enraged which is more than I was expecting.
His going to cave. Did you listen to his floor speech when he brought it up. He sounded so unsure about the move. His voice was shaking.
Its not going to happen
I fucking hope he does and doesn't back down. People absolutely need more than the $600 OR $1,200 they want to give folks. There is absolutely no reason besides galling incompetence that the government won't do it.
I’m out of the loop as to how he can shut it down. I don’t know the procedures that lead to a shutdown
The government has to pass a bill by tomorrow to fund the government for 2021. If Bernie (and the one Republican who agreed as well) filibuster the Senate version of the bill, they are effectively threatening to shut down the government. Of course the military and politicians will still get paid while millions of others get furloughed so it's always a risky move, but it's the last card opposition can play.
Is what they are trying to shutdown the govt only Over a stimulus? And is the military budget/politicians something they already approved or something that they can have control over if they filibuster? (I’m not exactly sure how filibusters work)
Filibuster is an ancient rule which still controls our Senate that says a Senator is allowed to keep talking as long as they can (as opposed to the House, where they are afforded speaking time by the minute). People have filibustered for days before, just straight up reading the phonebook or whatever. It means one (or a handful) of Senators can threaten to stop a bill indefinitely by preventing a vote to ever happen. (The senate can override a filibuster with a super-majority, but that is rare and Senators don't like to hurt their filibuster power).
Bernie was trying to shutdown the government because the new round of stimulus that was proposed offered no direct payments to citizens. It was just more handouts to corporations. He said give em $1200 or we do another shut-down, which is bad political optics as well as causing many thousands of people to go without paychecks.
The federal government only votes for the funding on a year by year basis, it expires every January. The government needs to vote how to fund itself for the next year, so no it's not pre-approved. This is a bill that needs to happen or come January first, only "essential" government functions like the military have funding from an emergency pool. Politicians often try to tie big bills (like the stimulus) to government funding bill because it has to pass.
Bernie was threatening that, playing the last card he could essentially. But the new proposed stimulus bill has $600 per person for direct payouts, so he'll probably cave because some money is better than no money.
Also, the longest filibuster ever was Strom Thurmond speaking for ~24 hours against a civil rights bill. Biden spoke at the funeral of one of the most racist Americans in modern history, unironically.
The fillibuster has a complicated history. Cloture, the rule that says you can vote to stop a fillibuster with a certain majority, was only adopted in 1917 when Wilson got mad that a fillibuster killed a bill to arm merchant vessels against German submarines.
He's to democrats what John McCain is to Republicans based on his voting record.
