Stop calling me a lib lol i wanted to know if tolkien is cool or not.

Also lol imagine reading, i only watched the movies, which have no right being so good.

  • Duo [any]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Yes it's dope as fuck, I'm rereading it right now. I don't really get the (probably ironic) take that the orcs are actually good or something. There's some weirdness about the southerlings and easterlings but I haven't gotten to the parts where they are explained in depth, if they are at all in LOTR, they may only be really fleshed out in The History of Middle-Earth or some other texts.

      • CommieMisha [she/her,they/them]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Tolkien never actually established the origins of the Orcs. There were a bunch of different explanations from JRRT and his son, but no clear cut explanation as to where the Orcs are from.

        • Duo [any]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Yeah, Tolkien's idea of the Orc changed a lot over time, but I buy the idea that they were elves that were captured and corrupted by Morgoth, since that ties in with the idea of everlasting flame, or life essence, or whatever, in that only Iluvatar can make true life that is not just an automaton, thus Morgoth needed make his servants by corrupting existing beings rather than wholly creating them himself.

          • SteveHasBunker [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            only Iluvatar can make true life

            I believe some of his servants can as well but only because he bestowed them with the power to.

            One of his servants created the Dwarves cuz he was worried Iluvatar was struggling with making men so he created a prototype version. Iluvatae was kinda pissed but go his heart was in the right place and let the Dwarves live. Apparently it’s a matter of theological debate in middle earth if dwarves can go to heaven or not cuz of this.

            • CommieMisha [she/her,they/them]
              ·
              4 years ago

              I thought it was that the servant created dwarves but they were not "alive", just bound to the will of their creator. Iluvitar bestowed life on them later but made it so that they had to wake up at the same time as men?

    • Dimmer06 [he/him,comrade/them]
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      1
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      4 years ago

      Rohan and Gondor were settler-colonial feudal empires (as had been the kingdom of Arnor in the North and some of the elves). It isn't a terrible take that the Orcs fighting the settlers were good guys even if it wasn't really for the Dunlendings or the Southern/Eastern peoples.

      Also Saruman was an industrialist and was trying to develop industrial capitalism so he is arguably a step forward from the feudal societies of men, orcs, and dwarves.