• 7DeadlyFetishes [he/him,comrade/them]
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    4 years ago

    uh oh, the one man who single handily jumpstarted a somewhat comprehensive left wing movement in American that got regular liberals and even some conservatives to unite against big capitalist cooperate interests made a single tiny whoopies daisy vote in the 90s, I guess it's time to drop this old geezer for what is, a counter revolutionary. I am very good at being a leftist.

    Edit: oh no, the one time I voiced a somewhat vaguely political opinion and now I've pissed off everyone.

    I'm not defending Bernie, and my "whoopsie daisy" statement shouldn't be taken literally, of course it's bad, why he didn't have the foresight to vote nay is beyond me; but my main grievences lie in how the American leftists want to dump Bernie hard post election, which I find quite odd considering that I'd imagine that the vast majority of leftists on this forum are "Bernie Bros".

    Like, don't chastise me for slighty undermining one bad Bernie vote for the sake of broader leftism in the America, but he's the best we got. America had 8 fucking years of Bush and the best thing we got out of that was Obama. I didn't see leftism make any progress during that time period. So this is the best we got right now, Democratic Socialism. I know it isn't the exactly the most fun prospects or ideologically stringent movement in America, but it clears that regular Americans sympathize way more with the mild succdem politics of AOC and Bernie before relatively basic socialist ideas.

    To sum up my argument, yes Bernie is not excused of all criticism, but to think that Bernie should be dumped in favor of some ideological purity that most Americans could care less about in the long run is just backwards, especially considering all the leftist projects Bernie helped ignite in the last 5 years alone, more projects that achieved more than the PSL or CPUSA (lol)

    -7DeadlyFetishes

    • VILenin [he/him]M
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      4 years ago

      tiny whoopies daisy vote in the 90s

      Whoops, I just accidentally did an imperialism

      Whoops, I just accidentally supported war criminals

      Oopsie haha hope there aren't any devastating consequences, just a tiny little mistake

      Western leftist moment

      Being a leftist is when you refuse to hold your favorite politician accountable for his previous actions instead of coming to terms with the fact that he isn't the epic socialist grandpa you wanted him to be. He's a social democrat who is capable of having shitty takes and supporting shitty things. He's not immune to criticism because he also does good things. I can commend him for the good things he's done and put him on blast when he deserves it.

      Edit: I'm not dumping bernie completely, I'm just not gonna make excuses for him when he fucks up. Early 20th century unions did very cool shit but they were also incredibly racist, but I don't think anyone here is gonna complain about "purity testing" if I point that out.

      To quote Mao:

      To let things slide for the sake of peace and friendship when a person has clearly gone wrong, and refrain from principled argument because he is an old acquaintance, a fellow townsman, a schoolmate, a close friend, a loved one, an old colleague or old subordinate. Or to touch on the matter lightly instead of going into it thoroughly, so as to keep on good terms. The result is that both the organization and the individual are harmed. This is one type of liberalism.

      • fed [none/use name]
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        4 years ago

        oh no he voted on a bill that would have passed without his vote, guess the sole reason m4a is popular in America and a lifetime spent advocating for workers is cancelled sweaty

        • VILenin [he/him]M
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          4 years ago

          Supporting imperialism is ok when your vote doesn't decide the issue.

          the sole reason m4a is popular

          great man theory time let's go

          How dare I criticize bernie for his vote. How dare I point out that he supported intervention in Yugoslavia. Truly cancel culture has gone too far.

        • DetroitLolcat [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          Screaming "CANCEL CULTURE" when we're criticizing a politican for voting to bomb civilians pretty much epitomizes the statement "cut a liberal and a fascist bleeds".

          You can support Bernie when he does good things without reactively defending him on the shitty things he's done.

          • fed [none/use name]
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            4 years ago

            yep im fash for thinking that criticizing a house vote from 22 years ago that would have changed nothing either way he voted isn’t productive and worthwhile. Literally no leftist that isn’t a succ dem thinks American Imperialism is good.

            • VILenin [he/him]M
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              4 years ago

              TIL voting for bombing civilians is ok as long as you didn't cast the tie-breaking vote.

              • fed [none/use name]
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                4 years ago

                how the fuck is this productive you are literally just being a fucking dick head for no reason leave me alone

                • VILenin [he/him]M
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                  4 years ago

                  Go post your imperialism apologia over on r/socialdemocracy

                  Edit: Whew, looks like I ruffled a few feathers. I guess being a dick is when I point out your flawed justification. I don't care if it happened a century ago, or how much his vote actually influenced the outcome, what matters is he expressed support for American intervention in Yugoslavia, something that is indefensible. You explicitly acknowledged that you believed it was acceptable to vote for the aforementioned intervention because his vote didn't turn the tables. This is what is known as an excuse. Is it so hard to acknowledge that Bernie fucked up? Imagine if I tried to handwave away Biden's support for segregation by saying it happened a long time ago and also he didn't manage to save it so what does it matter anyway.

        • CEGBDFA [any]
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          4 years ago

          deleted by creator

            • CEGBDFA [any]
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              4 years ago

              deleted by creator

              • fed [none/use name]
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                4 years ago

                your argument is dumb because your assuming people are voting yes on bills they disagree with because “they are going to pass anyway”

                im not saying that lol

                  • fed [none/use name]
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                    4 years ago

                    because it literally doesn’t matter that Bernie voted yes on it, wow a politician had the wrong opinion 22 years ago on a bill that had bipartisan support and was probably given false justification/information by the intelligence community anyway. If he then supported the Iraq war sure but bringing up shit that literally doesn’t matter in a country that doesn’t exist anymore is stupid and counter productive. no leftist thinks American imperialism is good

                      • VILenin [he/him]M
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                        4 years ago

                        I'd like this guy to go to the Balkans and tell everyone there how irrelevant the whole Yugoslavia thing was

    • KamalaHarrisPOTUS [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      there is no negative impact on bernie if a meme criting him from the left gets upvoted on chapo.chat

      • grisbajskulor [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        Agree with this take, I wrote more elsewhere in the thread. Critique of him is good, especially post-election. This website is coalition of shitposters from various left tendencies, even including some social democrats, that's all we have right now. I'm like 7DeadlyFetishes in that I still support him, but to do so uncritically just means you're a social democrat who's okay with disgusting imperialism.

    • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]
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      4 years ago

      I strongly believe you can think Bernie is mostly a good thing without mitigating this. It was more than a small oopsie. Hell, Bernie isn't going to run for president again, there's really no point in trying to defend his legacy (or whatever) now. I don't think it would hurt the movement he created on the whole at this point.