Dirt_Owl has point y'all. If someone calls you out take a moment to breath and try to understand where the other person is coming from. Transphobia is killing our comrades and this talk of so called "facts and logic" only serves to alienate and form barriers between us.
I know it sucks to be wrong and you hurt inside when someone says you're wrong. We all carry shame from growing up in a cruel world, a world where we were ridiculed or mock for not knowing all the answers. We need to make sure that in our hurt we don't lash out but pause and take a moment took look outside our world view into that of our comrades.
Our trans comrades feel this shame and more with the very question of their identity being scrutinized constantly growing up. This is supposed to be a safe place to chill and hang. Mods can only do so much in policing this place, it falls on all of us to our part.
mmmm i feel like the "problem" of trans women in sports is less about trans women, and more about pro sports really really not wanting to look in the mirror because it knows how absurd and stupid and based on ancient bullshit it all is.
the triumph of the individual without regard to circumstances, 'nobody is allowed to do performance enhancing drugs', and alllllllllll the other myths that the whole artifice is built on.
Hope I didn't blunder too bad. Meant more on the self reflection part. Was trying to make a more emotional appeal because that's where I think the problem with tranphobia lies. You can show tranphobes all the evidence on why they are wrong and they won't budge. Trying to build empathy between all of us didn't mean they are correct and sorry if I came off that way.
I think your right and I'm thinking on some thing else too. I think the Olympics are just a scam to steal as much money from the population as possible. If people realized how much money the rich are pocketing then they might want something back. Think trans people are one of many distractions and scapegoats that make everyone forget where our taxes go.
nah it's not even that (I mean the olympics totally are, but your local high school track team probably isn't. 50/50 isn't. and this applies just as much to them).
in a system about finding every possible little edge, the idea that some edges should be banned and others not just seems kind of ridiculous and inconsistent and absurd and I can't take it seriously, whether trans people are ever advantaged in sport or not. I literally don't (and can't) care.
because the whole 'glory' of sport is based on bullshit capitistic myths of the individual being separate from their environment and shit, and that shit flies less and less nowadays.
This the whole dialectics base and super structure right? I'll be honest what I know about this I learned through memes. So gonna believe what you say and add some if okay.
I think high school sports are also heavy capitalistic since uniforms and equipment. I can imagine these rules serve the function of keeping sponsors from getting cold feet. High school and college might make comparatively more since they don't pay the athletes. Don't know to much since I never played.
oh team sports with like logo'd teams are jingoistic as fuck and terrifying. but im saying not-for-profit leagues are fine. maybe good, even, i dunno i have questions and im not settled.
it's the myth of the individual separate from their material conditions, of having longer legs or a harder jaw or getting fed more milk early or having more time to work out young or epigenetic fuckery that tweaked their muscle growth to be just a little more or all the things. the point being that trans people in sports is the problem, but at a high level; literally anything that gets you a win is in the same category of 'problem', and people get so upset about it because it exposes that basically everything that makes an athlete win (usually drugs) is kind of the same fucking thing.
ah. ive been woke-ish long enough that im jaded and spiteful and filled with more disdain than optimism, so I dont try to educate people so much anymore.
i guess I don't respect people enough to tell them how they're wrong anymore.
No need to apologize sounds like you've been through more shit then I can imagine, being angry makes sense. If or better yet when I get to that island hope we can curse at the world together. Solidarity comrade :heart-sickle: and :trans-heart:
Still, don't care I'm a big boy I can take it. We all need some love and understanding. Peace out comrade. If you ever need to vent I'll be here making bad puns and the like.
perhaps, but there are standards of decency I should hold myself to, because if I don't who that, I occasionally pretend to respect for the sake of not having to do gross stuff, will?
Guess I'm trying to stick to what I originally said about not lashing out and using empathy. It would have been easier to yell but feel like this route created an empathetic connection that wouldn't exist otherwise. Still I respect what you said about standards just wanted to let you know no barriers were formed on my end, that I didn't take it personal. Gonna take a nap now, hope you have a good day.
On your earlier point might be best to experiment and start a struggle session on doping in sports and remove the question of our trans comrades to see if the same level of discussion arises. Maybe wait a bit once the current one dies down or something idk. I do think you have a point but wanna see this theory in action.
but that's the thing; it's not worth the struggle session. i feel like this is settled. trans people are a scapegoat so sports can go on and keep being deeeeeeeeply problematic and fucked. ive thought this for over a decade; i don't think anyone's going to convince me otherwise.
maybe some of the more cerebral sports have non-biological differences in their high level competitors? fencing or chess or-oh right chess is gender segregated fucking still. so maybe its all bullshit? like, literally all of it?
my assessment: trans women are a scapegoat. gender segregated leagues in things where there isn't clear biological advantage (basketball, because height is so important. shooting bec-wait what? yes really.) are a sybolic altar where we venerate the essential nature of biology and gender and the inferiority of ~50% of the population.
becuase the thing is never about what it's about. we don't live in a world that capable of honesty or shallow in its fuckery and awfulness.
Sorry if I offended but see your point. Competitive sports are weird as hell. There seems to be a whole nother side of this that I didn't know of. Didn't know chess was segregated. This gave me a lot to chew on so thanks for this.
Dirt_Owl has point y'all. If someone calls you out take a moment to breath and try to understand where the other person is coming from. Transphobia is killing our comrades and this talk of so called "facts and logic" only serves to alienate and form barriers between us.
I know it sucks to be wrong and you hurt inside when someone says you're wrong. We all carry shame from growing up in a cruel world, a world where we were ridiculed or mock for not knowing all the answers. We need to make sure that in our hurt we don't lash out but pause and take a moment took look outside our world view into that of our comrades.
Our trans comrades feel this shame and more with the very question of their identity being scrutinized constantly growing up. This is supposed to be a safe place to chill and hang. Mods can only do so much in policing this place, it falls on all of us to our part.
mmmm i feel like the "problem" of trans women in sports is less about trans women, and more about pro sports really really not wanting to look in the mirror because it knows how absurd and stupid and based on ancient bullshit it all is.
the triumph of the individual without regard to circumstances, 'nobody is allowed to do performance enhancing drugs', and alllllllllll the other myths that the whole artifice is built on.
Hope I didn't blunder too bad. Meant more on the self reflection part. Was trying to make a more emotional appeal because that's where I think the problem with tranphobia lies. You can show tranphobes all the evidence on why they are wrong and they won't budge. Trying to build empathy between all of us didn't mean they are correct and sorry if I came off that way.
I think your right and I'm thinking on some thing else too. I think the Olympics are just a scam to steal as much money from the population as possible. If people realized how much money the rich are pocketing then they might want something back. Think trans people are one of many distractions and scapegoats that make everyone forget where our taxes go.
nah it's not even that (I mean the olympics totally are, but your local high school track team probably isn't. 50/50 isn't. and this applies just as much to them).
in a system about finding every possible little edge, the idea that some edges should be banned and others not just seems kind of ridiculous and inconsistent and absurd and I can't take it seriously, whether trans people are ever advantaged in sport or not. I literally don't (and can't) care.
because the whole 'glory' of sport is based on bullshit capitistic myths of the individual being separate from their environment and shit, and that shit flies less and less nowadays.
This the whole dialectics base and super structure right? I'll be honest what I know about this I learned through memes. So gonna believe what you say and add some if okay.
I think high school sports are also heavy capitalistic since uniforms and equipment. I can imagine these rules serve the function of keeping sponsors from getting cold feet. High school and college might make comparatively more since they don't pay the athletes. Don't know to much since I never played.
oh team sports with like logo'd teams are jingoistic as fuck and terrifying. but im saying not-for-profit leagues are fine. maybe good, even, i dunno i have questions and im not settled.
it's the myth of the individual separate from their material conditions, of having longer legs or a harder jaw or getting fed more milk early or having more time to work out young or epigenetic fuckery that tweaked their muscle growth to be just a little more or all the things. the point being that trans people in sports is the problem, but at a high level; literally anything that gets you a win is in the same category of 'problem', and people get so upset about it because it exposes that basically everything that makes an athlete win (usually drugs) is kind of the same fucking thing.
Related side note, there is a channel on the youtube that talks about non-profits and how they still make a lot of money. Another slice it's called.
Back to discussion, getting kind of sleepy rn now. Hard to think would it be okay to continue the later need to wake up in 4 hours.
yeah nonprofits are slimy. i know this.
Sorry just checking I didn't know about this until like a month ago btw.
ah. ive been woke-ish long enough that im jaded and spiteful and filled with more disdain than optimism, so I dont try to educate people so much anymore.
i guess I don't respect people enough to tell them how they're wrong anymore.
Sorry once again guess I'm out of my element in this one. This conversation was enlightening though so thanks again.
nothing to be sorry for. this was me apologizing for my crass phrasing.
we await you on the island of "I don't respect humanity enough to correct it anymore".
No need to apologize sounds like you've been through more shit then I can imagine, being angry makes sense. If or better yet when I get to that island hope we can curse at the world together. Solidarity comrade :heart-sickle: and :trans-heart:
doesn't make "yeah I already knew that stfu noob" any less crass or more excusable.
Still, don't care I'm a big boy I can take it. We all need some love and understanding. Peace out comrade. If you ever need to vent I'll be here making bad puns and the like.
perhaps, but there are standards of decency I should hold myself to, because if I don't who that, I occasionally pretend to respect for the sake of not having to do gross stuff, will?
Guess I'm trying to stick to what I originally said about not lashing out and using empathy. It would have been easier to yell but feel like this route created an empathetic connection that wouldn't exist otherwise. Still I respect what you said about standards just wanted to let you know no barriers were formed on my end, that I didn't take it personal. Gonna take a nap now, hope you have a good day.
On your earlier point might be best to experiment and start a struggle session on doping in sports and remove the question of our trans comrades to see if the same level of discussion arises. Maybe wait a bit once the current one dies down or something idk. I do think you have a point but wanna see this theory in action.
but that's the thing; it's not worth the struggle session. i feel like this is settled. trans people are a scapegoat so sports can go on and keep being deeeeeeeeply problematic and fucked. ive thought this for over a decade; i don't think anyone's going to convince me otherwise.
maybe some of the more cerebral sports have non-biological differences in their high level competitors? fencing or chess or-oh right chess is gender segregated fucking still. so maybe its all bullshit? like, literally all of it?
my assessment: trans women are a scapegoat. gender segregated leagues in things where there isn't clear biological advantage (basketball, because height is so important. shooting bec-wait what? yes really.) are a sybolic altar where we venerate the essential nature of biology and gender and the inferiority of ~50% of the population.
becuase the thing is never about what it's about. we don't live in a world that capable of honesty or shallow in its fuckery and awfulness.
Sorry if I offended but see your point. Competitive sports are weird as hell. There seems to be a whole nother side of this that I didn't know of. Didn't know chess was segregated. This gave me a lot to chew on so thanks for this.
chess. and shooting. SHOOTING! IT'S LITERALLY ABOUT EYESIGHT AND FINE MOTOR CONTROL! unless you're using, like, a cannon.