That is all. I love you nerds but please stop being shit heads. You're better then this.
Because those squats are hard af. I get so pissed off if I don't stay down long enough and the game doesn't count one.
I always have to reposition the leg strap. I think my thighs are just too jacked, they always push it down towards the knee!
I guess this isn't really the forum for it, but an answer to equip people with when confronted with this topic beyond "you should be ashamed of yourself" would probably be helpful
Sorry if it came off as aggressive comrade. Self-crit doesn't mean I want you to feel ashamed. Reading/listening to the book in the post Transcomrade69 stickied is a good start if you want a better understanding.
Please note if anyone is saying "women are women except..." That's no different than saying "I'm not racist but...".
Either women are women and can participate in women's activities or they are not women and they cannot. There is no "women are women except". It literally is that easy. Women are women. Trans women are women. It's so simple even libs like Biden understand it.
I like how these nerds always claim to know athletes or are related to an athlete in a competition with trans women but are never athletes themselves. It takes a fucking lot of work, effort, and motivation to stay in competition shape and its even harder for trans people because of bullshit like this while they still have to try and change their life and struggle through all the alienation and hate and just want to fucking run or swim and then still have to practice and work just as hard as everyone else.
They always insist testosterone is so important and must be properly segregated from women's sports when they won't divide up all athletes by height, weight, age, bone density, blood oxygenation, lung capacity, limb size, muscle level, training amount, affluence, all hormone levels, nutritional levels, time spent at higher elevations, diet, time since learning the sport, and age puberty started.
Dividing by gender is just a quick and easy way to have more manageable groups in any area that have a chance of competing similarly but still have wild variation inside the group. Trans women are women and should always be allowed to compete in any competition that would allow her had she been born a cis woman.
I mean every single one of these at once, as hyperbole to show why there's no such thing as an absolutely equal footing for competition.
I know many sports are divided further, I've competed in some like wrestling, swimming, and hockey that were divided to different degrees, but there was never anything close to a real level playing field as gender and weight and age even combined weren't enough to outweigh massive advantages like family wealth, height and reach, professional training/facility qualities, or time in the sport.
I was slightly on the fence about the trans people in sports debate (albeit always "I just want there to be better studies so trans people have good evidence for inclusion" rather than, well, how stupidpol approaches it) and this post seemed like a good summary of the current evidence: https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/l25vt2/comment/gk3hhqh
Particularly this was interesting, BMD referring to... bone density, I think:
Trans women appear to be biologically (probably even genetically) a distinct population from cis men even at birth; what we know about cis men does not necessarily carry over to trans women. For example, we have known for a while that statistically, trans women have lower BMD than cis men and a recent study from Brazil indicates that BMD of at least Caucasian trans women (even pre-transition) may be comparable to that of cis women rather than that of cis men; the causes may be in part genetic.
Albeit I'd half-joke that the bone density difference could also be because transgender women are so thin. God, I met up with a trans woman friend a few weeks ago, who I haven't seen in 5 years, and she was painfully thin, please eat more.
Dirt_Owl has point y'all. If someone calls you out take a moment to breath and try to understand where the other person is coming from. Transphobia is killing our comrades and this talk of so called "facts and logic" only serves to alienate and form barriers between us.
I know it sucks to be wrong and you hurt inside when someone says you're wrong. We all carry shame from growing up in a cruel world, a world where we were ridiculed or mock for not knowing all the answers. We need to make sure that in our hurt we don't lash out but pause and take a moment took look outside our world view into that of our comrades.
Our trans comrades feel this shame and more with the very question of their identity being scrutinized constantly growing up. This is supposed to be a safe place to chill and hang. Mods can only do so much in policing this place, it falls on all of us to our part.
mmmm i feel like the "problem" of trans women in sports is less about trans women, and more about pro sports really really not wanting to look in the mirror because it knows how absurd and stupid and based on ancient bullshit it all is.
the triumph of the individual without regard to circumstances, 'nobody is allowed to do performance enhancing drugs', and alllllllllll the other myths that the whole artifice is built on.
Hope I didn't blunder too bad. Meant more on the self reflection part. Was trying to make a more emotional appeal because that's where I think the problem with tranphobia lies. You can show tranphobes all the evidence on why they are wrong and they won't budge. Trying to build empathy between all of us didn't mean they are correct and sorry if I came off that way.
I think your right and I'm thinking on some thing else too. I think the Olympics are just a scam to steal as much money from the population as possible. If people realized how much money the rich are pocketing then they might want something back. Think trans people are one of many distractions and scapegoats that make everyone forget where our taxes go.
nah it's not even that (I mean the olympics totally are, but your local high school track team probably isn't. 50/50 isn't. and this applies just as much to them).
in a system about finding every possible little edge, the idea that some edges should be banned and others not just seems kind of ridiculous and inconsistent and absurd and I can't take it seriously, whether trans people are ever advantaged in sport or not. I literally don't (and can't) care.
because the whole 'glory' of sport is based on bullshit capitistic myths of the individual being separate from their environment and shit, and that shit flies less and less nowadays.
This the whole dialectics base and super structure right? I'll be honest what I know about this I learned through memes. So gonna believe what you say and add some if okay.
I think high school sports are also heavy capitalistic since uniforms and equipment. I can imagine these rules serve the function of keeping sponsors from getting cold feet. High school and college might make comparatively more since they don't pay the athletes. Don't know to much since I never played.
oh team sports with like logo'd teams are jingoistic as fuck and terrifying. but im saying not-for-profit leagues are fine. maybe good, even, i dunno i have questions and im not settled.
it's the myth of the individual separate from their material conditions, of having longer legs or a harder jaw or getting fed more milk early or having more time to work out young or epigenetic fuckery that tweaked their muscle growth to be just a little more or all the things. the point being that trans people in sports is the problem, but at a high level; literally anything that gets you a win is in the same category of 'problem', and people get so upset about it because it exposes that basically everything that makes an athlete win (usually drugs) is kind of the same fucking thing.
Related side note, there is a channel on the youtube that talks about non-profits and how they still make a lot of money. Another slice it's called.
Back to discussion, getting kind of sleepy rn now. Hard to think would it be okay to continue the later need to wake up in 4 hours.
Sorry just checking I didn't know about this until like a month ago btw.
ah. ive been woke-ish long enough that im jaded and spiteful and filled with more disdain than optimism, so I dont try to educate people so much anymore.
i guess I don't respect people enough to tell them how they're wrong anymore.
Sorry once again guess I'm out of my element in this one. This conversation was enlightening though so thanks again.
nothing to be sorry for. this was me apologizing for my crass phrasing.
we await you on the island of "I don't respect humanity enough to correct it anymore".
No need to apologize sounds like you've been through more shit then I can imagine, being angry makes sense. If or better yet when I get to that island hope we can curse at the world together. Solidarity comrade :heart-sickle: and :trans-heart:
doesn't make "yeah I already knew that stfu noob" any less crass or more excusable.
Still, don't care I'm a big boy I can take it. We all need some love and understanding. Peace out comrade. If you ever need to vent I'll be here making bad puns and the like.
perhaps, but there are standards of decency I should hold myself to, because if I don't who that, I occasionally pretend to respect for the sake of not having to do gross stuff, will?
Guess I'm trying to stick to what I originally said about not lashing out and using empathy. It would have been easier to yell but feel like this route created an empathetic connection that wouldn't exist otherwise. Still I respect what you said about standards just wanted to let you know no barriers were formed on my end, that I didn't take it personal. Gonna take a nap now, hope you have a good day.
On your earlier point might be best to experiment and start a struggle session on doping in sports and remove the question of our trans comrades to see if the same level of discussion arises. Maybe wait a bit once the current one dies down or something idk. I do think you have a point but wanna see this theory in action.
but that's the thing; it's not worth the struggle session. i feel like this is settled. trans people are a scapegoat so sports can go on and keep being deeeeeeeeply problematic and fucked. ive thought this for over a decade; i don't think anyone's going to convince me otherwise.
maybe some of the more cerebral sports have non-biological differences in their high level competitors? fencing or chess or-oh right chess is gender segregated fucking still. so maybe its all bullshit? like, literally all of it?
my assessment: trans women are a scapegoat. gender segregated leagues in things where there isn't clear biological advantage (basketball, because height is so important. shooting bec-wait what? yes really.) are a sybolic altar where we venerate the essential nature of biology and gender and the inferiority of ~50% of the population.
becuase the thing is never about what it's about. we don't live in a world that capable of honesty or shallow in its fuckery and awfulness.
Sorry if I offended but see your point. Competitive sports are weird as hell. There seems to be a whole nother side of this that I didn't know of. Didn't know chess was segregated. This gave me a lot to chew on so thanks for this.
chess. and shooting. SHOOTING! IT'S LITERALLY ABOUT EYESIGHT AND FINE MOTOR CONTROL! unless you're using, like, a cannon.
