Am a linguistics major... researched vocal fry extensively. It's sexist. It's no one's right to criticize how someone talks, especially when the main people you're criticizing is young women, who already get shit on for everything.
Well most people here are not linguistics majors, have not researched vocal fry extensively, and once again were not coming from a place of hostility. And no one was shitting on young women besides the two who have a public platform on a podcast, of which the post was specifically about. I feel like there is some can’t see the forest for the trees going on here.
That’s not what I’m trying to say. I mean, of course listen to women, especially in regards in things that concern them, their struggles, and oppression. I just feel it was misplaced for what other comrades were trying to say. Like, don’t waste this argument on me or on a thread about Red Scare.
No one was even trying to be misogynistic or hateful towards women is the thing. They were describing something they don’t like about a podcast that happens to have two women. That doesn’t mean you need to go around replying on several comrades comments that they are being misogynists and to stop being sexist. You came at them with more direct hostility than they had indirectly.
And I’ve completely separated the fact that you are a woman with the toxicity, unreasonableness, and target painting.
Intent is everything. No one was out right intentionally being sexist, and the comments I saw seemed to be scolding them for being those things. I understand how it can be sexist, but nothing here appeared to be anyone being like that (at the time this started). It looked like someone went “I don’t like vocal fry” and you said “you guys need to stop being sexist/Misogynist.”
I just meant that I don’t think being a woman is why those things came up. Like you are being those as a person, not specifically as a woman.
I completely understand why and how it is sexist. It is an audio stimulation that mainly occurs in young women. Since it is associated with young women certain social and cultural norms arise from not only hearing it, but thinking about it as well. Due to these social and cultural norms, people will start to negatively associate vocal fry with women because it could be any number of negative effects that could bother someone. Then it just gets molded into outright misogyny if let unchecked.
I’m at work so I’m typing fast and probably not using the correct language. I don’t mean it’s a choice. It’s just how they sound or what their voice does. Yes you said it yourself that it occurs mainly in women but also does in young men too.
I WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING ANNOYED BY MALE VOCAL FRY AND I WAS STILL CALLED A MISOGYNIST BECAUSE IT IS MAINLY ATTRIBUTED TO WOMEN.
I’m so fucking done with all of this. :ban-hammer: please. Purge me and my misogyny since I’m just a stupid moron apparently that hates women
Maybe people piled on because it wasn’t necessary given the context and could have, as a mod, made a post or stickied it even to explain to people how it is sexist. Rather than specifically commenting on comrades replies telling them not to be sexist, implying that they are being it, even if their intent was not one of misogyny.
None of this was coming from a place of sexism or misogyny. Just seemed like it was more of a “hey you are being a sexist!!” Rather than a “hey, that is sexism pls don’t.” If you cared that much about this, why not make a post that explains how language today can be seen as sexist, even if the speaker has no intention of trying to be or sound like one.
I just don’t feel like a red scare shit talk post was the location for this hill to die on. I never said you were incorrect, I admit that I didn’t know it was inherently sexist, and have said several times you are correct. That doesn’t make me a super hard anti women man.
There is absolutely nothing I can say now with the label of me being a sexist that won’t reflect upon that. Anything I say is defense of myself or my thoughts earlier will be critiqued with “well you utter buffoon, you should now that because we live in a patriarchal and misogynist society and culture, you as a man have no choice but to be a sexist because you have never done _________.”
Like what do you want? Is yelling at some idiot about vocal fry the extent of your leftist aspirations? Why go so hard on this specific topic, in this post, about these people, and this specific audio tic?
Ok, have your opinion here, but also acknowledge that you made someone here feel shite. All you've done is say 'but technically I wasn't wrong' when really you should take some of what they're saying onboard, say 'hm, I didn't know that about vocal fry - I'll take a closer look some time' and then apologise for making someone feel marginalised, whether it was an innocent mistake or not.
I got language policed for disability related slurs that I didn't realise were slurs not so long ago. Totally innocent mistake. I was ill informed. Didn't mean to cause offence. Yet still, I was wrong, and I made someone feel bad.
I’ve admitted stuff I don’t know and openly try to learn as much as I can since I don’t know the struggles other comrades go through since I’m literally a straight white dude.
This has once against turned into a struggle session for no reason because someone fees targeted by comments made about Red Scare.
Am a linguistics major... researched vocal fry extensively. It's sexist. It's no one's right to criticize how someone talks, especially when the main people you're criticizing is young women, who already get shit on for everything.
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Well most people here are not linguistics majors, have not researched vocal fry extensively, and once again were not coming from a place of hostility. And no one was shitting on young women besides the two who have a public platform on a podcast, of which the post was specifically about. I feel like there is some can’t see the forest for the trees going on here.
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That’s not what I’m trying to say. I mean, of course listen to women, especially in regards in things that concern them, their struggles, and oppression. I just feel it was misplaced for what other comrades were trying to say. Like, don’t waste this argument on me or on a thread about Red Scare.
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No one was even trying to be misogynistic or hateful towards women is the thing. They were describing something they don’t like about a podcast that happens to have two women. That doesn’t mean you need to go around replying on several comrades comments that they are being misogynists and to stop being sexist. You came at them with more direct hostility than they had indirectly.
And I’ve completely separated the fact that you are a woman with the toxicity, unreasonableness, and target painting.
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Intent is everything. No one was out right intentionally being sexist, and the comments I saw seemed to be scolding them for being those things. I understand how it can be sexist, but nothing here appeared to be anyone being like that (at the time this started). It looked like someone went “I don’t like vocal fry” and you said “you guys need to stop being sexist/Misogynist.”
I just meant that I don’t think being a woman is why those things came up. Like you are being those as a person, not specifically as a woman.
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I’m over all of this. Just take your victory, remove my comments, and ban me so I can fuck off.
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I completely understand why and how it is sexist. It is an audio stimulation that mainly occurs in young women. Since it is associated with young women certain social and cultural norms arise from not only hearing it, but thinking about it as well. Due to these social and cultural norms, people will start to negatively associate vocal fry with women because it could be any number of negative effects that could bother someone. Then it just gets molded into outright misogyny if let unchecked.
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I’m at work so I’m typing fast and probably not using the correct language. I don’t mean it’s a choice. It’s just how they sound or what their voice does. Yes you said it yourself that it occurs mainly in women but also does in young men too.
I WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING ANNOYED BY MALE VOCAL FRY AND I WAS STILL CALLED A MISOGYNIST BECAUSE IT IS MAINLY ATTRIBUTED TO WOMEN.
I’m so fucking done with all of this. :ban-hammer: please. Purge me and my misogyny since I’m just a stupid moron apparently that hates women
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Maybe people piled on because it wasn’t necessary given the context and could have, as a mod, made a post or stickied it even to explain to people how it is sexist. Rather than specifically commenting on comrades replies telling them not to be sexist, implying that they are being it, even if their intent was not one of misogyny.
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None of this was coming from a place of sexism or misogyny. Just seemed like it was more of a “hey you are being a sexist!!” Rather than a “hey, that is sexism pls don’t.” If you cared that much about this, why not make a post that explains how language today can be seen as sexist, even if the speaker has no intention of trying to be or sound like one.
I just don’t feel like a red scare shit talk post was the location for this hill to die on. I never said you were incorrect, I admit that I didn’t know it was inherently sexist, and have said several times you are correct. That doesn’t make me a super hard anti women man.
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Welp, time to execute me for my crimes then.
There is absolutely nothing I can say now with the label of me being a sexist that won’t reflect upon that. Anything I say is defense of myself or my thoughts earlier will be critiqued with “well you utter buffoon, you should now that because we live in a patriarchal and misogynist society and culture, you as a man have no choice but to be a sexist because you have never done _________.”
Like what do you want? Is yelling at some idiot about vocal fry the extent of your leftist aspirations? Why go so hard on this specific topic, in this post, about these people, and this specific audio tic?
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Absolutely unbelievable.
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Ok, have your opinion here, but also acknowledge that you made someone here feel shite. All you've done is say 'but technically I wasn't wrong' when really you should take some of what they're saying onboard, say 'hm, I didn't know that about vocal fry - I'll take a closer look some time' and then apologise for making someone feel marginalised, whether it was an innocent mistake or not.
I got language policed for disability related slurs that I didn't realise were slurs not so long ago. Totally innocent mistake. I was ill informed. Didn't mean to cause offence. Yet still, I was wrong, and I made someone feel bad.
I’ve admitted stuff I don’t know and openly try to learn as much as I can since I don’t know the struggles other comrades go through since I’m literally a straight white dude.
This has once against turned into a struggle session for no reason because someone fees targeted by comments made about Red Scare.
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You’re right again. Congratulations.