I think the only truly bad movie from the sequel trilogy was The Rise of Skywalker. The Force Awakens was what it needed to be - a safe and simple return to form that wiped out people's memories of the prequels. The Last Jedi was understandably divisive and had a couple rough spots, but making the twist be that Rey wasn't related to anyone else really was the best way to resolve that plot thread.
But then TROS was so bad it made the other two films worse lol.
I look back on TFA a lot more harshly now after TROS. TLJ remains about the same as when I saw it. Really interesting flawed movie that should have had a second draft and cut 15 minutes out.
Rose was a mistake in that it should have been Finn and Poe's adventure instead. If you have to have her in there then should should just form a trio with them.
Having Poe go off and try to save the day in a cowboy fashion only to have it blow up in his face makes so much sense than him being a military officer who can't accept that his superiors don't tell him every single thing.
That plot idea (exactly as you described it) is good - but the execution was terrible. (SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS below).
A) Holdo's plan was secret for no reason. Star Wars canon is for the good guys to tell each other everything - omissions being poorly hidden exceptions. Betrayal isn't sudden - it's telegraphed. The Rebellion/Resistance is democratic, there's no rigid hierarchy or air of suspicion.
Tension between characters has to be justified to feel real. It's always a hack-writer move when the problem would have been resolved if characters just talked to each other, but didn't, for no reason.
B) The plan was shit. Most people died. The rest were only saved by a deus ex machina. At least discussing alternatives would have made sense.
C) Poe isn't actually punished for the mutiny and disaster he caused. Holdo and Leia amiably joke how they like him despite him disobeying orders twice and fucking up. WTF is that? Fire the hero or promote him. If it's something in between it's not worth making a movie about it.
The plot loses its cake and fails to eat it, too. Poe makes a mistake, but doesn't suffer for it. He's an ass, but it's fine. What kind of hero, what kind of story is that?
They stated outright that the empire (first order, whatever) had either a spy or some sort of new tracking technology.
But there is no spy. And Poe is never suspected of being a spy. So it's a contrivance. If you don't know how your enemy is tracking you, then you can't assume that you'll be able to hide from them, no matter your precautions. You either find out how you're being tracked, or you plan to act openly.
It's way too subtle a reason to sow distrust between characters in a Star Wars film. If it were a drama about a WWII submarine, then one wrong look on a face brought on by the stress of war could cause everyone to shoot each other dead. But when your characters fire off perky quips between slaughtering cartoon enemies with colorful lasers it doesn't fit.
As much as I thought TLJ was a mess, I didn’t hate it and would have gladly preferred a continuation of that story than whatever JJ did with that last movie. Blew my mind people liked that shit when it came out.
Blew my mind people liked that shit when it came out.
There was anyone that liked that movie? (I mean besides weird MRA people like Ben Shapiro and the weird trad fash guy on his network who had some weird ideological reasons to like it). The movie was completely incoherent, the scenes barely connected and so much of it was clearly just written by focus groups. Like TLJ had its flaws, but I didn't spend half the movie wanting to leave at least.
When it came out I remember people were saying how they liked it way better than TLJ. Then again Star Wars fans are probably not the go to people on getting good movie takes.
I think the only truly bad movie from the sequel trilogy was The Rise of Skywalker. The Force Awakens was what it needed to be - a safe and simple return to form that wiped out people's memories of the prequels. The Last Jedi was understandably divisive and had a couple rough spots, but making the twist be that Rey wasn't related to anyone else really was the best way to resolve that plot thread.
But then TROS was so bad it made the other two films worse lol.
I look back on TFA a lot more harshly now after TROS. TLJ remains about the same as when I saw it. Really interesting flawed movie that should have had a second draft and cut 15 minutes out.
Rose was a mistake in that it should have been Finn and Poe's adventure instead. If you have to have her in there then should should just form a trio with them.
Having Poe go off and try to save the day in a cowboy fashion only to have it blow up in his face makes so much sense than him being a military officer who can't accept that his superiors don't tell him every single thing.
That plot idea (exactly as you described it) is good - but the execution was terrible. (SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS below).
A) Holdo's plan was secret for no reason. Star Wars canon is for the good guys to tell each other everything - omissions being poorly hidden exceptions. Betrayal isn't sudden - it's telegraphed. The Rebellion/Resistance is democratic, there's no rigid hierarchy or air of suspicion.
Tension between characters has to be justified to feel real. It's always a hack-writer move when the problem would have been resolved if characters just talked to each other, but didn't, for no reason.
B) The plan was shit. Most people died. The rest were only saved by a deus ex machina. At least discussing alternatives would have made sense.
C) Poe isn't actually punished for the mutiny and disaster he caused. Holdo and Leia amiably joke how they like him despite him disobeying orders twice and fucking up. WTF is that? Fire the hero or promote him. If it's something in between it's not worth making a movie about it.
The plot loses its cake and fails to eat it, too. Poe makes a mistake, but doesn't suffer for it. He's an ass, but it's fine. What kind of hero, what kind of story is that?
They stated outright that the empire (first order, whatever) had either a spy or some sort of new tracking technology.
Because the movie is shit. It's a low speed chase you aren't salvaging that unless it's the opening to a movie about OJ.
But there is no spy. And Poe is never suspected of being a spy. So it's a contrivance. If you don't know how your enemy is tracking you, then you can't assume that you'll be able to hide from them, no matter your precautions. You either find out how you're being tracked, or you plan to act openly.
It's way too subtle a reason to sow distrust between characters in a Star Wars film. If it were a drama about a WWII submarine, then one wrong look on a face brought on by the stress of war could cause everyone to shoot each other dead. But when your characters fire off perky quips between slaughtering cartoon enemies with colorful lasers it doesn't fit.
Yes. But in part as well as in whole.
As much as I thought TLJ was a mess, I didn’t hate it and would have gladly preferred a continuation of that story than whatever JJ did with that last movie. Blew my mind people liked that shit when it came out.
There was anyone that liked that movie? (I mean besides weird MRA people like Ben Shapiro and the weird trad fash guy on his network who had some weird ideological reasons to like it). The movie was completely incoherent, the scenes barely connected and so much of it was clearly just written by focus groups. Like TLJ had its flaws, but I didn't spend half the movie wanting to leave at least.
When it came out I remember people were saying how they liked it way better than TLJ. Then again Star Wars fans are probably not the go to people on getting good movie takes.
The rey/kylo stuff is the only decent part of the movie.
Everything else is just poorly paced garbage with completely unlikeable characters.