"So, consider this single stick. Alone it is weak. But bundle the sticks into a removed, then top it with an ax, and you've got the symbol for... uh... shit."
Well, weren't early fascist movements pretty left wing? Before their ideology cristalized. I feel like even today people would tend to lean more towards fascism rather than socialism, because of this, and the legacy of capitalism... Socialism requires a little bit of a trust in humanity and empathy, which I feel are in short supply. Which makes it very easy to slip into the fascy path ...
No, they may have had some reforms for working conditions and social welfare in their platforms but that all came packaged with "we need to use incredible violence to destroy the Bolsheviks ravaging our country." And fascism always changes and morphs to suit its needs and aquire more power. It's disingenuous and a little dangerous to describe it as left wing. But you're right in that fascism seems to be an easier leap for libs to make, I'd wager mostly because of their nationalist rhetoric
Oh, I absolutey dont want to describe it as left wing. More like an amorphous blob, that uses whatever it can to get power, but ultimately ends up very far right as it gains power. Like a cynical realpolitik type of thing. My point is that early on, when it doesnt have power it will try to attract people with traditionally left-wing consolations - i.e. working conditions and social welfate, whereas the incredible violence kind of comes when they start gaining power. And that it kind of seems easier for people (as in the masses, devoid of ideology) to go down that alley, instead of the more peaceful socialism path. Think of "social welfare and rights, but for me and people like me, and concentration camps for immigrants" type of thing instead of - does it make sense?
And this is also a problem I struggle with - how do you build a movement and make a revolution that doesnt get coopted by a bunch of reactionaries, or wanna be fascists. Also how do you overcome these tendencies within the masses. I kind of lowkey suspect this fear is what drives so much of leftist in-fighting...
Well, weren’t early fascist movements pretty left wing?
In so far as they were out of power and part of the fractious maelstrom of opposition, sure.
Socialism requires a little bit of a trust in humanity and empathy, which I feel are in short supply. Which makes it very easy to slip into the fascy path …
Socialidm requires you to reject the theory of innate primacy, whether it be individual, familial, racial, national, or otherwise.
But "you're special" is an easy sell, especially if it helps reinforce some other prejudice or satisfy some perceived sleight.
"So, consider this single stick. Alone it is weak. But bundle the sticks into a removed, then top it with an ax, and you've got the symbol for... uh... shit."
Well, weren't early fascist movements pretty left wing? Before their ideology cristalized. I feel like even today people would tend to lean more towards fascism rather than socialism, because of this, and the legacy of capitalism... Socialism requires a little bit of a trust in humanity and empathy, which I feel are in short supply. Which makes it very easy to slip into the fascy path ...
No, they may have had some reforms for working conditions and social welfare in their platforms but that all came packaged with "we need to use incredible violence to destroy the Bolsheviks ravaging our country." And fascism always changes and morphs to suit its needs and aquire more power. It's disingenuous and a little dangerous to describe it as left wing. But you're right in that fascism seems to be an easier leap for libs to make, I'd wager mostly because of their nationalist rhetoric
Oh, I absolutey dont want to describe it as left wing. More like an amorphous blob, that uses whatever it can to get power, but ultimately ends up very far right as it gains power. Like a cynical realpolitik type of thing. My point is that early on, when it doesnt have power it will try to attract people with traditionally left-wing consolations - i.e. working conditions and social welfate, whereas the incredible violence kind of comes when they start gaining power. And that it kind of seems easier for people (as in the masses, devoid of ideology) to go down that alley, instead of the more peaceful socialism path. Think of "social welfare and rights, but for me and people like me, and concentration camps for immigrants" type of thing instead of - does it make sense?
Yeah honestly I think you nailed it lol. Those sort of early reforms is how fascism distinguishes itself from the status quo.
And this is also a problem I struggle with - how do you build a movement and make a revolution that doesnt get coopted by a bunch of reactionaries, or wanna be fascists. Also how do you overcome these tendencies within the masses. I kind of lowkey suspect this fear is what drives so much of leftist in-fighting...
In so far as they were out of power and part of the fractious maelstrom of opposition, sure.
Socialidm requires you to reject the theory of innate primacy, whether it be individual, familial, racial, national, or otherwise.
But "you're special" is an easy sell, especially if it helps reinforce some other prejudice or satisfy some perceived sleight.