...So you pick up a history book to figure out US's angle
From Peter Dale Scotts: American War Machine-Deep Politics, The Cia and the Global Drug Connection, and the Road to Afghanistan
TL:DR the US turned Burma-Laos and Thailand into a heroin growing triangle (The Golden Triangle) much like they did with the Mafia in Sicily and Marseilles.
The Drug traffickers and drug money became a huge way of CIA to implant bourgeois ideology and suppress communists and the growing popularity of the PRC. They even used ex-Nazis as agents for drug smuggling. It also gave US unfettered access to Myanmars tungsten reserves.
This enitre coalition was directed at China of course.
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Yeah I'm aware the guy that writes it is a white Thai nationalist that loves the Thai military
However I don't care. He exposed that those groups are tied to CIA and that's all I do care about and those groups are listed on NEDs website and I don't care what his motives for doing so were (being a pro Thai rightist or Monarchist or being an anarchist or communist makes little difference)
So while the US embassy denies NED is funding them....They're on NEDs website
Here's a second source on it
https://altthainews.blogspot.com/2020/09/us-embassy-denies-funding-thai-protests.html?m=1
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The source I'm concerned with is the fact NED listed them on their website
So they're still funded by NED/CIA
https://www.ned.org/region/asia/thailand-2019/
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Yeah I'm an OP for pointing out these orgs are on NEDs website
Jesus wept stop replying to me.
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Global Times: Behind-scenes funding of Thailand protests show invisible Western hands
iLaw are on NEDs site
And a Human rights lawyers association is on there and given that CIA runs money through shell companies and shell orgs I wouldn't be surprised if it was just looped through a shell org
Also your allegation that "Assembly of the poor" aren't on there when there's this on NEDs website. Again CIA runs through shell orgs. They've probably changed their name since.
https://www.ned.org/region/asia/thailand-2019/
You've also not dealt with the 2 billionaires tied to WallStreet: Thanathorn and Thaksin
Thanathorn has been writing shit like this
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/politics/1550586/thailand-needs-hyperloop-not-china-built-high-speed-rail-thanathorn
and Thaksin was a servile puppet of US by taking Thailand into Iraq then setting up blacksite CIA torture prisons in Thailand.
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I don’t have a side on this argument but I do not think a lot of people here realize that NED has money in pretty much everything in the third world, whether they’re direct assets or just vague humanitarianism. I happen to know of a Mexican org that gets legal help to indigenous prisoners who don’t speak Spanish. They get NED funding. It’s not a CIA regime change operation, it has no political pretensions that way. Just like that there’s a billion different things that NED has its hands on. Yes, of course there’s an overall bent towards liberal imperialist bullshit, and it is their job ultimately to secure the US’ sphere of control, but not everything that receives or has received money from NED is owned by the CIA.
They will pay and front orgs that are "good" and "doing good".
But their main purpose is to cultivate assets - to find leaders and people with charisma using these orgs to then use them for US foreign policy ends (either knowingly or unknowingly)
In Mexico you should be paying attention to these bastards as the fact Mexico is flooded with drugs and has seen more death in Mexico than Afghanistan in the recent past is directly tied to US foreign policy destabilising Mexico by weaponising drugs using the CIA and organised crime (Chapter 2 of the book this post is off)
yes i am aware.
It's almost like you explicitly made that clear in your post and yet this person ignored that for some reason.
It sounds like their response was geared towards these comments.
The NED doing missionary work for the CIA does not preclude it from being owned by the CIA, nor does it make that missionary work indifferent to the CIA's objectives.
Yes, I am aware.
So, why play dumb? It just seems unnecessarily rude if you know the reason they responded.
Why drag any of this up when you weren't involved in the first place?
I took your initial comment in good faith, and I told you why I thought their comment was helpful. You decided to double-down on being an ass for some reason.
Don't be a dick to people here.
I don’t get why you think it’s a response at all when the premise is already a part of my comment.
It is literally what my post was cultivated on! The only reason it makes sense to begin with!
Your comment made it sound like these two types of NED operations were distinct from one another. The response highlighted that these are not distinct. It is two features of the same operation.
I found that important to highlight because it matches with the revolving door of state agents & humanitarian operations in my city.
It's not a dig at you or anything, but the clarification was helpful.
Yeah I mean that’s fine, we have different reads on this and maybe I’m not expressing myself very well. To be clear I do not think most of the organizations where NED has money are “NED operations” in and of themselves. They opportunistically and parasitically extends their claws everywhere, yeah, but receiving some NED money (note: some money, not being entirely funded that way) in itself doesn’t tell me that the organization is what the CIA needs them to be.
Whether that’s the case with this specific Thai group, I have no idea, I had never heard of them before this thread and I think it’s fine to be suspicious.
read Marx radlibs
lol
I need to save this thread.
A year from now it will be more obvious these protests are a US operation with Thaksin Shinawatra at the helm. Radlibs here will pretend that no Leftists ever supported it.
It's always the way
Anarchists supported the fascist/neoliberal uprising in Belarus
Trots all supported the racist far right protestors in Hong Kong who were waving trump flags and calling mainland Chinese cockroaches
A year after the fact and all the information about US funding the protests is out in the open and all these motherfuckers are like "Belarus who? Hong Kong where?"
It'll be the same with Thailand
Yep. Judging by the upvotes, it's clear that ignoring US operations in Thailand is a popular position in this thread.
Supporters of these protests must seriously grappled with the failures of past color revolutions. I don't trust anyone who refuses to learn lessons from Ukraine, Hong Kong, Libya, Syria, etc.
The only Thai communist that I've read who has supported these protests is Giles Ji Ungpakorn. He supported all the color revolutions in the 2010's and has familial ties to Thailand's comprador bourgeoisie.
No communist has provided a method for revolution under the dual pressures of the existing state & the US color revolution complex. I won't hear about them until their revolution succeeds, since they sure as hell won't get tenure from the Rockefeller Foundation.
I literally posted multiple times that RT Thailand is an openly communist group. Just because you aren't aware that it exists in the fact of obvious examples.. M
Congrats for quoting reactionaries in Thailand. Would you like to hear leftist local opinions?
Sure. I'll see for myself whether it falls into the bin of actual materialist analysis, or "Marxist" myth-making. There were countless "Marxists" who supported regime change in Hong Kong, Ukraine, Syria, and Libya.
My friend did a podcast with one of the leaders of the student protests. She's full commie and openly critical of libs and billionaires. I'll DM you and anyone that asks for it. It's my friend's podcast, so I'm hesitant to share to openly.
The website "Ugly Truth Thailand" has a good material, Marxist summary of Thailand, although the guy's a Trot. The same guy wrote "A Coup for the Rich", which has a good Marxist summary of recent Thai political history.
Giles Ji Ungpakorn is the one who runs "Ugly Truth Thailand", right?
I'm reading through his history. He has had a horrible track record with identifying US State Department operations in US-enemy states.
Back in September 2019, he called the events in Hong Kong a "grassroots uprising", [1] despite the fact that any materialist would have highlighted Jimmy Lai's media empire pushing propaganda for the movement, and Joshua Wang meetings with thee US State Department.
In 2011, he actually compares his opponents in Thailand to the supporters of the Libyan & Syrian governments, which is a telling admission. [2]
His father, Puey Ungphakorn, was the governor of the Bank of Thailand under Shinawatra. His brother, Jon Ungphakorn, is an NGO executive in Thailand. His mother was an English national, and he received his education at the University of London.
This family seems tied up in the exact imperialist-Left world that I've been criticizing.
I'll listen to your friend's podcast. I'm most interested to hear Thai communists discuss the degree to which the US State Department has infiltrated protest movements in Thailand. That is the question that must be reckoned with to avoid repeating the mistakes in Hong Kong, Ukraine, Libya, Syria, etc.
Also I just read your citations, and you're really pushing the literal meaning of his words. Honestly, lighten up with comrades a bit.
Damn, just imagine if academics attending a conference sponsored Gaddafi or Bash al-Assad! Luckily, he only attends US and UK sponsored conferences.
You must understand why it's hard for me to see trust the son of the top banker in Thailand - whose family is tied up in the same NGO networks that conspired to overthrow the governments in Syria, Libya, Ukraine, and Hong Kong - especially when he has never reckoned with the reality of US regime change through color revolution.
This is extraordinarily important because this thread is discussing whether the protests in Thailand are a color revolution.
You know you can be wrong about a handful of things sometimes, have a capitalist background, and have your analysis be more or less correct. Marx came from a bourgeois background, "Bakunin" said some anti semetic shit back in the day.
I'm not asking you to unquestingly absorb everything that Giles says. God knows I disagree with him on stuff. But for a pretty solid Marxist analysis on Thailand which a non Thai can understand easily, I think he's the best. He's fucking eons ahead of LandDestroyer.
Absolutely.
I'm sure he has done useful academic work. I do not trust him to identify US-sponsored color revolutions. This thread is determining to what degree the Thai protests are a US-sponsored color revolution.
Well by all mean find other Thai Marxists. 0.00% are on the side of LandDestroyer. Is this not obvious??
I'm working on it. The Marxist-Leninist party in Thailand (CPT) has been criminalized by both the current government & the previous government, which Giles' family played a central role in.
I'm def very critical of Giles. It's just incredibly weird to be so harsh on him yet take a right wing blog as gospel. Does this not make sense? Why dig deeply into the wording of a communist yet ignore actual lies from a reactionary?? Please don't ignore this one, because I keep needing to ask it.
What? Elaborate please.
Where have I taken a Right-wing blog as gospel?
I have stated four facts:
I have dug equally deep into Brian and Giles Ji Ungpakorn. The fact you call one a Right-winger and one a communist shouldn't dissuade me from doing my own research.
Brian is a worker, who does industrial design in Bangkok. He also freelance writes on issues in Southeast Asia. [1] I can't find any major government or capital connections for Brian yet.
Giles is an academic, whose family is closely-tied to finance & NGO operations in Thailand. He is the son of a well-decorated comprador bourgeoisie, who was the Bank of Thailand governor & a Member of the Order of the British Empire. [2]
I'd recommend scouring the internet for all dissident references to Puey Ungphakorn & Jon Ungphakorn. The language barrier makes this difficult, since the writings are primarily from US expats (like Brian) or compradors (like Giles).
As far as I can see, the whole thing is the iLAW, which is not the main player.
And in regards to you not reading Thai, ya no shit. Do you think that maybe the Thais know what's up in their own movement? Maybe a white person should be extra careful about judging an outside culture with limited knowledge?
And frankly, I've had many a fight and disagreement with Giles. But to make shit up about his family and then not bother to respond or apologize is absolutely shit. His family was not responsible for laws against communism.
Yes, I'm sure Thai people understand what's going on their country better than I do. And I have found Thai sources both defending and opposing the ongoing protests. Thai people are not a monolith.
Not when my country conspires within their borders. Same goes for Syria, Hong Kong, Libya, Ukraine, etc.
The American Left failed the world throughout the 2010's for its inability to distinguish popular uprising from color revolution. When the same institutions which supported these coups support the Thai protest, that must set off alarm bells in the minds of every American communist.
I'd love it if my government wasn't funding regime change operations in Thailand.
I literally never said they were.
I said his family held power during a government which criminalized the CPT. The fact that Giles was a "communist" and protected throughout the Thaksin Shinawatra government, while the CPT was criminalized, speaks volumes.
Don't fucking backtrack from your original words, you reactionary.
Why manipulate my quote? We are the only ones this far into the thread. You are only lying to yourself. I stand by my statement 100%. His family held influential roles in governments which criminalized the CPT. That is an undeniable fact.
I never said his family was "responsible" for anti-communism laws. They were complicit in a government which criminalized the CPT. Their specific orientation towards the CPT require further investigation. But the fact that Giles talks down to the CPT when they are banned in Thailand is informative [1]
His family has nothing to do with the banning of the CPT. Go find me a source in them being responsible or gtfo. Yes, he's a Trot and takes positions different than another party, as Marxists can differentiation their position. I don't expect anyone here to 100% take the side of Mao or Sanders.
Yet here you are, slandering Giles yet saying nothing bad about LandDestroyer whom regularly. praises the monarchy and army.
Please, I'm begging you: read what I am saying.
Also, this isn't a matter of "taking a different position" than MLs. The CPT was literally criminalized under the same government which uplifted the Ungpakorn family to high-ranking positions. I cannot imagine being a communist in a country where their Communist Party is criminalized, and not making that a primary issue. The only time he references the CPT is to criticize them.
Yes. I'm criticizing the academic with a well-connected family who's aligned with my country's interests on opposing the current government in Thailand. That is an issue which is relevant to me as a citizen of a country whose government wants to overthrow the Thai government and replace it with a client state. I don't find it worth my time to criticize a random blogger.
Source that his family was complicit?
Absolutely untrue. Are you not bored of making shit up?
Yet you buy into his analysis, while ignoring the views of multiple Thai communists whom I've sourced this discussion.
Can we have a bot reminding us about such things?
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