And as far as the whole "duuuhhh a cop "saved" AOC so some cops are good mkay" take goes....
....Congratulations :amerikkka-clap: to our resident crypto-chuds for spending a whole month wracking your brains just to come up with the most media-conformist horseshit take of the year so far
Because yes, lets HELP the media rewrite history by pretending that it wasn't the DC pigs who let the "cOup fOrCeS" into the building, and that the class character of those people wasn't exclusively made up of COPS, off-duty cops, former cops, the fail children of cops, the fail mothers of cops, the fail uncles of cops who also happen to be cops, Military cops, cops temporarily suspended for killing black people and car dealership owners who are all informants for said cops
FUCK THAT PIG AND FUCK THE MEDIA :acab:
Am I glad a fascist mob didn't murder the handful of cool congresspeople? Yes. I'm even glad they didn't murder Pelosi. It was a serious fascist mob with an unknown amount of government support.
But liberals/democrats are still not our friends. Their narrative is that "TERRORISTS SIEGED THE SACRED HALLS OF DEMOCRACY." So if you go around as a leftist pushing this message then you are playing into the liberal narrative which is trying to increase the apparatus of the security state. Biden fucking campaigned on jailing anarchists during the BLM insurrection. My own father was musing about Guantanamoing these guys if there was a domestic terrorism law. That is exactly what Joe "I wrote the Patriot Act" Biden wants, liberals whooped into a frenzy thinking they need more tools to stop "extremists".
And yes, good that the stupid pigs shot the stupid fascist lady. But those same cops wouldn't have let a BLM protest get 5 steps up the Hill. Fuck the pigs, fuck the fash, fuck Trump, fuck the dems, and fuck the stupid Manufacturing Consent by the minute media.
And yes, good that the stupid pigs shot the stupid fascist lady
Not really, it was extremely fucked up to watch 2 fully armed cops stand around while she climbed through the window and got shot.
This is the sort of thing that congress should be looking at and dragging in those pigs to grill them for what happened.
Instead we get Eugene fucking Goodman.
Morally, I know you're right that we should never cheer on police violence. But she was a former airforce, former cop, anti-mask social media grifter who was literally leading (like actually directing crowds where to go and drumming up support) a fascist mob towards where they thought congresspeople were.
After a summer of watching police kill and beat people for protesting (or many times just being in the wrong area), I'm really not losing any sleep that exactly one Jan 6th rioter got shot.
Going to commit a cardinal sin and repost a bit of analysis I wrote up in the previous thread because it got buried due to the progenitor of the comment chain getting banned (rip bozo)
There is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Fascism’s role is and how it relates to the current situation.
Fascism is not an ideology that is independent of or diametrically composed to liberalism; rather it’s a mechanism of capital to be leveraged by the bourgeoisie to supplement their hegemony and serve as a bulwark against leftism. It is not a genuinely popular movement, but masquerades as one. It adopts the trappings of one and often co-opts leftist rhetoric but it is incapable of, materially or ideologically, sustaining any sort of insurrection against the bourgeoisie state because it supports the bourgeoisie state and thus cannot nor does it have any interest in popular uprising.
Fascists can only take power by grafting themselves onto — and not usurping — existing institutions, often with the support of the bourgeoisie if not directly installed by them. We see this example in Hitler’s Germany, who was funded by the billion by industrialists and permitted into government as Chancellor for fear of the KDP, Italy where Mussolini came into power by coalition government and instituted the typical bourgeoisie-friendly economic policies under the auspices of a liberal financial advisor, Japan, Chile and the Chicago boys, etc.
Premature Fascist attempts at violent seizures of power would miserably fail, only for them to get remarkably lenient treatment and be gradually reintroduced to combat leftism. The SDP, that unleashed the Freikorps on the Spartakists, would ban the German Communist Party’s paramilitary wing and very soon after lift Hitler’s ban on public speaking. Liberals will show disgust to Fascism, but always side with them against socialism because their common interest and purpose is the preservation of the propertied classes.
This is also why you see the Proud Boys and other similar groups cooperating with police officers in protests — again, despite the occasional rhetorical effort at portraying themselves as against government overreach — because they’re an auxiliary of the bourgeois state and far from being able to supplant it, cannot exist without it. It is the bourgeois media that platforms it’s adherents, again feigning disgust but we know perfectly well that they’re more than capable of completely blocking out anything they actually don’t want people to hear about like Modi’s prosecution of Muslims and the newest pink wave in South America, and lavish money upon their figureheads.
The reactionaries were called to the capitol and enabled merely to serve their utility for intimidation and the stirring of fervor and passion in the Republican base. These reactionaries acted too prematurely, were promptly disavowed and dispersed without difficulty — and again, as usual, with practically a slap on the wrist because the bourgeois still has use for them.
The issue with the narrative of a credible Fascist coup getting fended off is that it implies that they exist as an independent and opposed force to the American state and liberalism, and they do not. It implies that the American bourgeois republic is something that is a ‘better’ alternative to Fascism, when the reality is that these reactionary nationalists are an vital instrument that helps to guarantee the survival of the capital and the bourgeois republic. If they posed any genuine threat to the current order, if Joe Biden or Nancy Pelosi truly believed these people were actually an dangerous threat to their livelihoods and safeties, then there would have been a thorough investigation and purging of all responsible parties and organs. But there wasn’t, because they’re not — they’re useful.
I am not understating the threat of Fascism or white nationalists. They are dangerous and I know this very well — My mother’s birth certificate lists her race as ‘negro’ and I live not very far away from places where black men were lynched and transgender black women were killed last year in response to the George Floyd protests — but they cannot be effectively combated if we cannot recognize their actual nature and how they operate as a component in capital’s myriad methods of hegemony.
Thanks for reposting — this is the best analysis I’ve seen on this topic on this site.
Thanks for reading. I'm glad you found it useful.
Edit: I'd also be glad to expound upon any element for anyone on the offhand chance people have any questions.
This is a good analysis, but I do have one possible disagreement: did the "riot", even if not a danger to the system, still pose a personal danger to specific officials? (Other than aoc, I've seen pelosi, romney, and pence mentioned often, with various levels of evidence given.) So that seems to put these reps/senators in a contradictory position where their personal motivations (personal safety) are opposed to the needs of their class (keeping organized fascists around as a tool like you describe).
Basically either (a) they were never actually in much danger, because the cops (to spite appearances that day) were actually doing that part of their job effectively (which reduces the stakes/ reduces the contradiction) or (b) they fight back against a group that their class may need later, or (c) they just accept that some amount of risk to themselves is acceptable as long as their class benefits from it.
Personally I think all 3 of those are partially true, which is why the whole response seems kind of muddled so far.
Good question. First off, I'm far from an academic expert (not that you should necessarily trust those without reservation) so I encourage to take everything I say critically. That said, it's important to note a few things in no particular order:
I. Becoming a congressional politician often requires a variety of maladaptive personality traits and oddities. Experiencing war and sometimes injury or torture firsthand does not stop many military veteran politicians from being fervent warhawks, like John McCain nor did the personal tragedy of losing a son to illness sway Joe Biden to support universal healthcare, former Black Panthers defending an status quo that saw their brethren murdered, etc. Some bask in the contempt they receive; according to Politico Mitch McConnell 'reveled in criticism, even decorating an entire wall of his office with negative newspaper cartoons about himself.'
A common characteristic seems to be the tolerance of cognitive dissonance and not allowing personal discomfort or dispositions to get away with long-term political expediency. The very day of the attack on the capitol? 121 out of 209 Republicans in the House of Representatives would immediately walk in and vote to arbitrarily toss out the Arizona, in a entirely performative effort to adhere to Trump's 'stolen election' narrative
II. People are people, with their own idiosyncrasies, habits and beliefs. There were perhaps a few members who were genuinely shaken and outraged to their core about what occurred, but they are statistically meagre and we speak in general, broad terms that reflect the general zeitgeists, trends and dynamics of the bourgeoisie and electoral machinations.
III. All of their actions have the effect of increasing poverty, terrorism, crime and etc, it's part and parcel of the continual siphoning of wealth to the bourgeoisie. It's why they comfortably seclude themselves with the ivory tower phenomenon, there's little danger in running into ruffians or miscreants in gentrified gated communities.
So, overall I'd sum it up as politicians are already accustomed to the reality that their actions directly contribute to deteriorating material conditions and thus theoretical danger to their person. By very virtue of their positions, they're also usually more than willing to dismiss events that affect them personally for careerism.
It's very likely that they, holistically, don't view these reactionaries as active perils that require introspection and change, but rather just another mild ambient hazard that's a component of fulfilling their role, no different to the rise of left-wing radical 'terrorism' in the 70-80s or Islamic extremism: they'll make sure they're, in the vast majority of instances, well insinuated from any meaningful consequence and shrug off the occasional brush with danger while continuing to cynically exploit these groups for maximum benefit.
from the look of it he was banned for getting angry and going off about how we’re not “real” communists
The absolute irony
we could do without your sanctimony.
On most days here I'm pretty chill, but I got two buttons, cop-apologia and bigotry, and there's nothing wrong with having some baseline standards around here and if getting a little "sanctimonious" with someone "earnestly" defending cops upsets some folks here, then tough can't please everybody
If your job is to protect the interests of the state, then preventing a mob from overthrowing the state is exactly what you’re expected to do. A socialist government would also need an armed force to prevent its overthrow. It’s okay to acknowledge this and to discern this from the use of wanton force against communities of color for the interests of capital and white supremacy. These two scenarios aren’t remotely similar and its stupid to pretend that they are.
If you are going to say fuck every cop that did their job during a literal attempt at overthrowing the government, then it stands to reason that you think that an angry mob of fascists attempting to install a white-ethno-state should go completely unopposed. And if you think that, then I have to question what motivates you to be a part of the left.
This IS cop-apologia, clear-cut and indisputable, also the premise, framing and argument of the DC pigs "stopping" a "fascist coup" is bullshit since they're the ones who allowed it to happen in the first place, not my fault your friend didn't know how to write his crypto-chud takes with subtlety, cope harder
take a deep breath before you reply. seriously
I'm drinking root beer and playing skyrim, I assure you, I'm NOT the one who needs to take a deep breath lol
all I see is a scenario in which two functions of the police
Well, perception does not always correspond to reality, especially in your case
I’m all for our enemies fighting each other and when it comes down to it there’s one side I’d rather see win
What sides? What are you talking about? THEY LET THEM IN, there is no sides they're all on the same side, pretending otherwise is the performative bullshit, your first clue to that fact should have been the medias reaction
our only actual problem is that people don’t hate cops integrally enough
Damn straight, millions of people hate cops, most of them express it internally because of social pressures, I want to increase that number and normalize those people's internal hatred and make it easier for them to express distrust of state-sponsored armed gangs openly
Literally no one here has had this take.
And miss me with that parasocial shit, I couldn't care less about some hypothetical murder that never would have taken place, I REPEAT, the pigs had that building secured, THEY LET THEM IN, and iced the first one that got outta control, so enough with these fuckin hysterics
Either the topic should be about the incompetency and calculated power move by the DC pigs or we stop feeding into the media hype
Examine the content and context of what he's saying critically.
If your job is to protect the interests of the state, then preventing a mob from overthrowing the state is exactly what you’re expected to do. A socialist government would also need an armed force to prevent its overthrow. It’s okay to acknowledge this and to discern this from the use of wanton force against communities of color for the interests of capital and white supremacy. These two scenarios aren’t remotely similar and its stupid to pretend that they are.
If you are going to say fuck every cop that did their job during a literal attempt at overthrowing the government, then it stands to reason that you think that an angry mob of fascists attempting to install a white-ethno-state should go completely unopposed. And if you think that, then I have to question what motivates you to be a part of the left.
Deliberately or not, it's an attempt at laundering the reputation of an organization that is the chief enforcer of oppression and the well-spring of institutionalized white nationalism in the United States. It's revisionism depicting the police as the final obstacle to an fascist take-over, while neglecting to mention that they are quite literally responsible for ushering the reactionaries into the building and, in off-duty capacity, composing a very significant number of the reactionary ranks. What occurred with the shooting of that woman was not a skin-of-the-teeth defeat of fascism, but rather an apparatus of the bourgeois disciplining one of it's auxiliaries after they overstepped their bounds.
Any argument that frames the police as anything other than a body with the explicit purpose of intimidating the proletariat must be refuted.
Any argument that frames the police as anything other than a body that reinforces — not defends — from white nationalism and fascism must be refuted, otherwise it will lead to the proliferation of fatal assumptions regarding who can and cannot be allied with and how the bourgeois state functions.
Hypotheticals involving violence to AOC and other more 'popular' representatives are abused as rhetorical devices meant to elicit visceral emotional responses to detract from a material grasp of the situation.
Seriously, cut the edgelord shit. He’s a cop at the capitol building. His job is literally the last line of defense for our representatives. It’s fine to give him credit where it’s due. You can acknowledge that he did enough to stave off an angry mob from overthrowing the government to usher in a fascist totalitarian state without being a boot-licking cop-lover. It’s fine
This is the outright literal definition of cop-apologia, in a thread about a cop saving FUCKIN REPUBLICANS, there is no interpretation or representation where you can pretend otherwise
Murders absolutely would have happened if no one with a gun was there to defend. If you think that mob wouldn’t have killed AOC if they had the chance you’re dreaming.
Let me repeat myself, I don't care about your hypothetical scenario, point of fact it didn't happen and wasn't LIKELY to happen, you can up come with all sorts of morbid counterfactuals, end of the day it's a negative that can't be proven or disproven, so who cares that isn't the point of this media creation anyway. What really matters is who was the primary agency of power on that day, surprise! it's the pigs who "almost" got your little parasocial friend killed
But you wouldn't know that judging by the media....or some of the garage takes I've seen in the last few hours
Fuck when are the admins gonna get on that air jerking off motion emoji? That’s twice now I’ve needed it
the topic should be about the incompetency and calculated power move by the DC pigs
If this is true, then the OP's opening really misses that mark in lieu of making it about everyone's favorite congressional source of drama here.
lol I barely gave her half a fuckin sentence and it was in reference to someone else's take, I don't know no congresslady bruh I'm talkin about policemans
I don’t know no congresslady bruh I’m talkin about policemans
Cool
Yea wtf is up with the praise for a cop tat saved Mike Pence of all people.
Dipshit crypto-libs think they've discovered a woke cheat code for supporting cops by using AOC as a cover, dumb-fucks actually think they're being slick with that shit
Despite the fact that AOC and the other quasi-succdem opportunists probably would have killed Rosa, it's hard not to sympathize with them and their trauma here, since they'd be on the same chopping block as actual Marxists and anarchists, with the neolibs and centrists throwing us all under the bus in a vain attempt to save themselves from the fash.
The neolibs in congress using this event as an excuse to build the case for a second Patriot Act or Homeland Security Act, on the other hand? They can go eat shit.
Taking the above into consideration, Jimmy Dore's and Glenn Greenwald's kneejerk impulses to downplay even AOC's anecdotal experience - practically indistinguishable to something that might have happened to Kshama or any other independent left officeholder if they had been in AOC's position that day - in opposition to the liberal deep state are thus understandable but dangerously misguided, if it means flirting with delusions of a red-brown united front against the liberals.
The neolibs in congress using this event as an excuse to build the case for a second Patriot Act or Homeland Security Act, on the other hand? They can go eat shit.
At the risk of getting banned again, AOC being determined to center her trauma only adds to the spectacle and encourages massive overreaction.
My only concern here would be the Dems and never-Trumpers shedding crocodile tears for AOC to launder their own cynical natsec-bloating goals. AOC correctly called out the cowardly Ted Cruz for being part of the fucking problem when he tried to extend an olive branch (likely in bad faith).
No, lol. It's just right wing in-fighting. If a Qanon mob marched every dem to the soccer stadium tomorrow it would literally make no difference to any socialists. The only thing they provide is the pretense of opposition and who needs that?
yes it would make a difference because they'd probably be marching us alongside them, if not before them
If you wouldn't at least risk it to get rid of them then they've already won
That pearl clutching over the threat of right wing violence only helps the libs.
we absolutely should be worried about right wing violence, but we must be careful not to simply reinforce liberal narratives and agenda when doing so
just as we should also be critical of libs, but careful not to do so by simply reinforcing right wing arguments and furthering their agenda, which is something I'm seeing a lot of when it comes to criticizing AOC from supposed leftists
The current state of bourgeois dictatorship is the largest perpetrator of right wing violence already, the fact that there was a drop of blowback from bankrupt chuds is like music to my ears, I hope all those legislators have to hide in closets, especially the ones trying to grift me by claiming they're "on my side" as they run interference for Pelosi.
at this fucking rate we are going to be awarding cops metals for "4 weeks without killing a minority"
No other occupation besides soldiers gets their dick/clit sucked as much as cops. Fuck cops. They are the oppressive tool of the bourgeoisie, all of them should be put before a trial and have to beg to not get executed for their crimes against the people. You will never catch me speaking a good thing about any copscum.
Doing your job? Under dictatorship of the bourgeoisie? that's sus
Yeah. Only fuck the police. One deed that isn't garbage doesn't justify the tons of bullshit they do.
if the cop had just given the rioters a pepsi things would have been okay
Can’t wait for them to make a movie about the bravery of the Capitol police in couple years :picard:
Lol only thing the "insurrection" did wrong was not to burn the whole place down, don't even care if they were petty bourg right wing in-fighting, a lot of left libs latch on to socialism to save the country when they should just be trying to destroy it.
