This was in my high school and early college years, later on in life I was able develop romantic relationships with them and healthy platonic relationships. I’ll be upfront and say a lot of the times if a straight dude hates women vehemently, it’s probably because he’s not getting laid or able to form any semblance of a romance with a woman.

  • queenjamie [none/use name]
    ·
    4 years ago

    It is not possible to truly move beyond that by just getting everybody laid. A lot of married men are sexist. MGTOW’s core demographic are divorcees. If internalized rage at one’s virginity was all there was to this subject, we wouldn’t have domestic abuse of romantic partners, we wouldn’t have this whole tradwife thing, we wouldn’t have the very basic fact that being a mother damages your career in ways being a father doesn’t.

    I get your points about how our society has placed us in these weird roles, but I think you're conflating frustrated virgins with angry divorced MGTOW dads. It seems like OP is in the former. The topic gets complex because the angry divorced dads often become the internet mentors to the incel guys by saying things like "my wife stole everything from me so you should avoid what I did!" It also doesn't help that if you're a shy/nerdy/geeky guy, society has been pretty much hammering into you that you gotta be an "alpha to get chicks." Although there's a recent uptick in "nerd culture" and normalization of once derided stuff, there's still the fetishization of traditional beauty standards (i.e. the "hot nerd guy" who plays games but also has a six pack and nice pecs). None of this excuses misogynistic behavior, but it does contextualize it. It seems like OP's diagnosis of sexual frustration may indeed partially apply in some cases (i.e. young, nerdy, outcast kind of guys who never really learned how to socialize).

    • MagisterSinister [he/him,comrade/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      I think you’re conflating frustrated virgins with angry divorced MGTOW dads

      No, i'm saying that the frustrated virgin, the angry divroced MGTOW dad, that these both take their individual frustration and latch onto existing ideology that permeates vast parts of our culture and has, at its core, nothing to do with their personal relationship status. These emotional issues are extremely important on the individual level, they are driving factors in manosphere recruiting, but that all comes in at a much later stage.

      • queenjamie [none/use name]
        ·
        4 years ago

        I see. It seems you're pretty well read up on anthropology. It seems like, as you said, that treating women as prized property has been around since way before capitalism. So do you think the angry, frustrated male thing might be something that has just been a part of human history, whether part of "human nature" or not?

        • MagisterSinister [he/him,comrade/them]
          ·
          4 years ago

          It seems like, as you said, that treating women as prized property has been around since way before capitalism.

          I think the popular notion is that it's been around since the agrarian revolution, when you suddenly have the concept of land as inheritable property and generational wealth comes into play.

          So do you think the angry, frustrated male thing might be something that has just been a part of human history, whether part of “human nature” or not?

          Angry, frustrated men are an easy pick when you're looking for soldiers, so yeah, that seems likely. That's just an emotional state where a lot of people are receptive to being offered a target to lash out at. My guess is that every form of charismatic rulership could, and in many cases has, utilized emotions as powerful and as easy to stoke as anger. I also think that's a really dangerous thing to do as a movement, government etc. because once you go all in on driving people into a frothing rage, you end up with a bunch of planless berzerkers who tazer their balls or trample each other. I actually view that as one of the inherent flaws of fascism, that they rely so much on their followers being made more and more emotionally malleable. It's definitely not how you win wars. But it's a very easy way to start them.

          • queenjamie [none/use name]
            ·
            4 years ago

            you end up with a bunch of planless berzerkers who tazer their balls or trample each other.

            Talk about "alpha" lol.