Bad take. "Fuck every worker who works somewhere unethical" is dumb because there are no ethics in capitalism in the first place. Nobody is ethical if you go that route. Nobody.
Workers are workers. Period. Worker purity tests are bad and counterproductive
At the same time "no ethics under capitalism" cannot be used to excuse deeply immoral and unethical behaviour. If some software engineer works for the US military or Raytheon or Lockheed Martin or any other military contractor or weapons manufacturer and calls themselves a leftist you can be damn sure I'll look at them funny and "purity test" them. Like "no ethics under capitalism" does not mean do whatever you want and actively make life worse for others in exchange for personal gain.
Yeah due to all the murkiness and that I think sticking to clear obvious examples of deeply immoral behaviour is best at the moment. Like no need to go after some Google or tech worker whose work is indirectly used by the CIA without their knowledge. But working directly in the MIC as a software engineer = bad basically.
Even then, I would still ask: is making satellites or radios or waterproof clothing for the military worse than, say, what Nestlé or DuPont are doing? I would argue no. I don't think it's easy to draw clear lines with this stuff.
Mcdonalds is unethical but Mcdonalds employees don't get a special secret unmarked bus service while the rest of our stops and lines are cut or talk endlessly and loudly in public about inane tech shit like fuckin apps
How about not "fuck every worker who works somewhere unethical" but just fuck these ones in particular because they are really annoying. Like, the stereotype of a catcalling construction worker is an honorable laborer, and they are (unlike techies) even theoretically doing actual socially beneficial work, but if they are sexist and bothersome then still, fuck them
"Fuck people who annoy me." Yes, surely this is the way we'll achieve a worker's revolution. I think somewhere Lenin actually said that workers who annoy you don't need to be a part of a proletarian worker's revolution.
A worker's revolution needs. Every. Worker. You cannot leave out "workers who annoy you". Trying to leave out sexist bothersome workers sounds great until you take a step inside a unionized factory. You think tech bros are bad? Try spending a week in a warehouse. The change has to be for every worker, and it ABSOLUTELY MUST be intersectional. You cannot just ignore sexist workers, or racist workers, or rich workers, or anyone. You have to look those problems in the face and address them, and then you have to bring those workers into the fold. Deal with sexism while teaching class consciousness, deal with racism while teaching class consciousness, etc. It's not easy but we're absolutely not going to achieve anything even remotely like international socialism without everyone together. You can't just write off entire swathes of the working class because they annoy you.
I've only ever worked in unionized warehouses and I'll be honest, my collegues in them may have been crass but they were way less annoying or problematic than the average tech bro lmao
They can be part of the proletarian revolution if they like I guess, if we're talking about the Rev I would probably prefer some sort of icy arctic labor camp but you're right, that imminent international communist revolution will "need. Every. Worker." and "ABSOLUTELY MUST be intersectional", and include the "rich workers", and all that nice stuff but oh well, I guess the communist revolution is gonna have to be called off because I aint gonna lick techy nuts online, not ever
Fuck people who annoy me, they suck shit, I don't like them
Woah woah woah, you said murder not me, I just think they suck bad. I think you may have overdosed on communist LARP.
You may not be a libertarian, but most google techies are and you are their defense squad, how very Communist of you to lay on the ground in front of technocapitalist shitheads and lick their kicks, and how very dirtbag-left chapo of you to throw yourself earnestly in front of a vulgar insult directed at a job
Bad take. "Fuck every worker who works somewhere unethical" is dumb because there are no ethics in capitalism in the first place. Nobody is ethical if you go that route. Nobody.
Workers are workers. Period. Worker purity tests are bad and counterproductive
At the same time "no ethics under capitalism" cannot be used to excuse deeply immoral and unethical behaviour. If some software engineer works for the US military or Raytheon or Lockheed Martin or any other military contractor or weapons manufacturer and calls themselves a leftist you can be damn sure I'll look at them funny and "purity test" them. Like "no ethics under capitalism" does not mean do whatever you want and actively make life worse for others in exchange for personal gain.
deleted by creator
Yeah due to all the murkiness and that I think sticking to clear obvious examples of deeply immoral behaviour is best at the moment. Like no need to go after some Google or tech worker whose work is indirectly used by the CIA without their knowledge. But working directly in the MIC as a software engineer = bad basically.
Even then, I would still ask: is making satellites or radios or waterproof clothing for the military worse than, say, what Nestlé or DuPont are doing? I would argue no. I don't think it's easy to draw clear lines with this stuff.
Mcdonalds is unethical but Mcdonalds employees don't get a special secret unmarked bus service while the rest of our stops and lines are cut or talk endlessly and loudly in public about inane tech shit like fuckin apps
How about not "fuck every worker who works somewhere unethical" but just fuck these ones in particular because they are really annoying. Like, the stereotype of a catcalling construction worker is an honorable laborer, and they are (unlike techies) even theoretically doing actual socially beneficial work, but if they are sexist and bothersome then still, fuck them
"Fuck people who annoy me." Yes, surely this is the way we'll achieve a worker's revolution. I think somewhere Lenin actually said that workers who annoy you don't need to be a part of a proletarian worker's revolution.
A worker's revolution needs. Every. Worker. You cannot leave out "workers who annoy you". Trying to leave out sexist bothersome workers sounds great until you take a step inside a unionized factory. You think tech bros are bad? Try spending a week in a warehouse. The change has to be for every worker, and it ABSOLUTELY MUST be intersectional. You cannot just ignore sexist workers, or racist workers, or rich workers, or anyone. You have to look those problems in the face and address them, and then you have to bring those workers into the fold. Deal with sexism while teaching class consciousness, deal with racism while teaching class consciousness, etc. It's not easy but we're absolutely not going to achieve anything even remotely like international socialism without everyone together. You can't just write off entire swathes of the working class because they annoy you.
I've only ever worked in unionized warehouses and I'll be honest, my collegues in them may have been crass but they were way less annoying or problematic than the average tech bro lmao
They can be part of the proletarian revolution if they like I guess, if we're talking about the Rev I would probably prefer some sort of icy arctic labor camp but you're right, that imminent international communist revolution will "need. Every. Worker." and "ABSOLUTELY MUST be intersectional", and include the "rich workers", and all that nice stuff but oh well, I guess the communist revolution is gonna have to be called off because I aint gonna lick techy nuts online, not ever
Fuck people who annoy me, they suck shit, I don't like them
Which is why nobody will ever take worker solidarity seriously
Nobody in the world annoys you then, huh? View must be nice from up there
Sure, plenty of people annoy me, but that doesn't mean I want to murder them because I'm not a libertarian. How did you even find this site?
Woah woah woah, you said murder not me, I just think they suck bad. I think you may have overdosed on communist LARP.
You may not be a libertarian, but most google techies are and you are their defense squad, how very Communist of you to lay on the ground in front of technocapitalist shitheads and lick their kicks, and how very dirtbag-left chapo of you to throw yourself earnestly in front of a vulgar insult directed at a job
Imagine being this mad that someone wants to include workers in a workers revolution
Another candidate for c/roastme