liberals literally get mad when you say this
Also reminder that China could have simply grabbed and intergrated HK straight up into the mainland after the colonial “lease” to the UK was over. And they had every right too.
That's not exactly true; the 'New Territories' of Hong Kong were on a 99 year lease, so for those lands (comprising nearly half the population of HK and the vast majority of the territory) China had the right to take them back in 1997, however for the remainder of Hong Kong - (consisting of Hong Kong island and Kowloon Peninsula), these territories were leased in perpetuity, so China didn't have a legal basis to go in and take them.
This is why mediation was needed - splitting the New Territories from Kowloon and Hong Kong Island would split the city's population nearly 50-50 into two, which would present huge logistic issues for both sides and wreck the economy of both parts, and would've left Britain, China, and the Hong Kongers unhappy.
I'm not going to comment on whether either side is keeping or breaking the agreement that was made, just pointing out that it wasn't some act of kindness or magnanimity that brought China to the negotiating table - the only other way they could've seized central Hong Kong in 1997 was through war.
"FREE HONG KONG"
like the CPC literally just did, chill
Idk the ethnolinguistic situation of China, I was just saying the media also loved to point out that a lot of Hong Kongers speak English. (They rarely mention why though).
People get mad at Jackie Chan for supporting China's government like he didn't spend his life making pro-China and anti-imperialist films.
Drunken Master 2 has him fighting against British colonizers and their Chinese collaborators to keep them from stealing Chinese artifacts. And the movie Vanguard has a throwaway line about how the US created a villain of the movie by drone bombing his village, which felt really weird to hear in such a schlocky movie, like I'm just used to schlock constantly sucking America's dick all the time.
Independence is when you're colonized by a foreign power.
I long for the day the United States is liberated.
:xi-plz:
Here’s my perspective. Maybe it’s being too idealistic. But if a region wants to be independent then, like, you don’t really have any moral claim on keeping it occupied. So if 80ish per cent of HKers wanted to not be a part of China, then I’d be for HK independence. That is not the case, obviously.
At some point you have to factor in the real world geopolitical situation - HK was a British colony and is today used as a political weapon by the US (which itself occupies so much land and oppresses so many people). It’s hypocritical to hold China to a higher standard especially in situations where they’d stand to lose massively and their enemy would gain massively. Life for HKers (the vast majority, not the few elites) would not improve under US control which is what would happen as soon as China relents.
And of course, most HKers, whatever their disagreements may be with the CPC, still consider themselves Chinese. It’s the idealistic students who are in love with the idea of a “free, liberal West” and the millionaires who push those dreams on the young who want to “free HK”.
Here’s my perspective. Maybe it’s being too idealistic. But if a region wants to be independent then, like, you don’t really have any moral claim on keeping it occupied. So if 80ish per cent of HKers wanted to not be a part of China, then I’d be for HK independence.
What does this mean in practice, though? Does Hong Kong become Singapore? Does it become Israel? And what happens to the 20% of HKers that wanted to remain a part of China? Can they peal their chunk of the city off and declare it independent in turn?
How do you weight the demands of non-citizens, like migrants? Or the transient whims of a public easily manipulated by false information? Like with the folks who voted Brexit thinking it was going to save the NHS. Or the assholes down in Texas who insist they can secede every time their team doesn't win the Presidency. Does society reorient itself every election cycle? Every business cycle? Every media cycle?
And of course, most HKers, whatever their disagreements may be with the CPC, still consider themselves Chinese. It’s the idealistic students who are in love with the idea of a “free, liberal West” and the millionaires who push those dreams on the young who want to “free HK”.
One big reason why stems from migration of Shenzhen residents and Hong Kong residents across the border. Even then, there's definitely a distinct "HKer" identity, particularly among English-speaking and English-educated residents. The UK was enjoying a similar blurred border situation prior to Brexit, and one of the prevailing criticisms aimed at its EU membership was the dissolution of "Britishness" in favor of "Europeanness". I suspect we'll see the departure reverse that trend as the island grows increasingly insular.
But had Hong Kong remained politically isolated for another generation? Or ten generations? I suspect we'd see a serious emergence of a distinct political identity, particularly if the economic situations of the mainland versus the colony diverged.
Again, I'd point to Israel versus Palestine. Or the crack-up of Yugoslavia and subsequent genocide. Or the violence between North and South Sudan.
I don't think it's enough to simply say "If people want to Balkinize then that's ok, because its their right to do so." Usually, balkinization is a reaction to some far more serious underlying problems. And I rarely see the split resolve those problems.
