"The TIP are believed to have links to al-Qaeda and affiliated groups such as the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan,[235] and the Pakistani Taliban"
"The Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP) is an Islamic extremist terrorist organisation seeking the expulsion of China from "East Turkestan".[230] Since its emergence in 2007 it has claimed responsibility for a number of terrorist attacks,"
France also has been dealing with a spate of beheadings and terrorist knife attacks recently, and France also has re-education camps for terrorists in their country
this situation has been defused by CPC's actions & the will of the Xinjiang people to move past the extremism & backwardness and into the more integrated future
Sounds like you're the one in denial lol
did you know that the US also kept Uyghurs in Guantanamo as suspected terrorists?
Uyghur spooks were also used to torture other Muslim detainees under American custody, except America did all of this in contravention of international law & human rights observations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rushan_Abbas
Uyghurs are now moving away from that precipice of radicalism & accepting a better deal from the PRC to receive uplift & social & economic development
the only difference is that France doesn't have the support of most Muslim nations whereas PRC does, because France's situation is only obliquely comparable
agreed. people forget the insane number of Uyghur fighters who volunteered for isis. the real question for leftists is how we choose to respond.
my take away on this nation-wide struggle session is that literally not a single western nation has the legitimacy to act as a defender of the islamic faith. US based liberals currently see the DOD and their intelligence agencies as fighters of humanitarianism. the Iraq war and all the brutal sanctions that came before it were merely a bump in the road for them.
a part of the reason why this is such an effective tactic is liberals seem to have their trust in the war ministries restored after 5 years of russian concpiracy theories. today they once again think they're a force for good.
all this shit is gonna result in is a cold war.
China is not the enemy is all that I can say. They are a nation that is in the process of figuring it out whereas the western world is in the thick of an ideology that became redundant two centuries ago.
actually it's cynical & not reflective of the facts on the ground to compare Black America's plight with that of Uyghurs in Xinjiang. I would really say it's the exact opposite
Uyghurs have always had autonomy & legally recognized protected status & statehood in PRC, something Black Americans still yearn for in their country
Black Americans in certain poor & deindustrialized areas do not have any such prospects, whereas Uyghurs voluntarily join these vocational training centres & are given uplift and are integrated into the economy & society
But again, all of this is assuming that knee-jerk subconscious reactions & bone-deep Sinophobia aren't the real underpinnings to most of this media barrage in the West
The semantically & factually correct statement would read, "Black America on a normal day faces far worse discrimination & systemic violence than any Uyghur in Xinjiang"
I would rather make concise true statements than to clumsily expand & corrupt the commonly accepted meaning of these words and equate the two situations... PRC & USA's social & economic situations & history are not to be equated
I don't need to disarm your talking point, I am just pointing out how cynically it's constructed. If you are at all trying to say that PRC's development & outreach in Xinjiang is comparable to how police treat Black Americans in the US, then it's not a true or semantically correct statement
There is no challenge. The truth doesn't really need our opinions or our imprecise syntactic constructions
The liberal talking point doesn't have any facts to stand on lol. So all we really need is to point out circa 2014 liberal media coverage of murders & extremist unrest in Xinjiang, and the rest should follow logically
No, it's not up to Marxists to fundamentally change people, all Marxists can do is clarify the conditions that exist & offer alternative analyses & historical context... hopefully point out contradictions & correcting the revolutionary line along the way. People still have to be willing to disengage with liberal & imperialist propaganda, and revolutionary conditions still have to present themselves. Marxists do not create revolution or class consciousness, these are things that take shape regardless of Marxian analysis, they are objective
Marx says that the point is to change the world. I think changing people is far less straightforward than that
You're right that facts do not care about liberals' feelings, but that's sort of the point of this whole exchange
Yes, we can't fundamentally change people on this metaphysical or spiritual plane, we can only offer clarification of the really existing situation & historical context. There is still "free will" here& usually people in the West will cling to "China bad" or "Russia bad" regardless of the truth
What we should do is engage them in peaceful discourse, and when that fails, we write them a strongly worded letter. They won't be able to recover from that!
deleted by creator
we know people are not forced into labor. we know that there are no forced sterilizations
we know that hundreds of people have been murdered over the years by Uyghur extremists in Xinjiang
are you saying this isn't evidence of the existence of a militant group?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Kashgar_attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_2014_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_2014_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkistan_Islamic_Party
"The TIP are believed to have links to al-Qaeda and affiliated groups such as the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan,[235] and the Pakistani Taliban"
"The Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP) is an Islamic extremist terrorist organisation seeking the expulsion of China from "East Turkestan".[230] Since its emergence in 2007 it has claimed responsibility for a number of terrorist attacks,"
France also has been dealing with a spate of beheadings and terrorist knife attacks recently, and France also has re-education camps for terrorists in their country
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/france-fights-terror-with-re-education-camps-plan-7wg9vrrgd
PRC is not jailing anyone, unless they're convicted criminals of course. And the vocation training centres are voluntary to join in Xinjiang
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/7/30/china-most-people-in-xinjiang-camps-have-returned-to-society
this situation has been defused by CPC's actions & the will of the Xinjiang people to move past the extremism & backwardness and into the more integrated future
Sounds like you're the one in denial lol
did you know that the US also kept Uyghurs in Guantanamo as suspected terrorists?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_detainees_at_Guantanamo_Bay
Uyghur spooks were also used to torture other Muslim detainees under American custody, except America did all of this in contravention of international law & human rights observations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rushan_Abbas
Uyghurs are now moving away from that precipice of radicalism & accepting a better deal from the PRC to receive uplift & social & economic development
Congrats, you've addressed everything except what they said, this is remarkable.
(Also lol at simping Macron because he's repressing muslims too, very cool and normal)
the only difference is that France doesn't have the support of most Muslim nations whereas PRC does, because France's situation is only obliquely comparable
OIC supports PRC here
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Keep going guys, this is fun reading.
Lol currently watching the mods delete
As is tradition.
agreed. people forget the insane number of Uyghur fighters who volunteered for isis. the real question for leftists is how we choose to respond.
my take away on this nation-wide struggle session is that literally not a single western nation has the legitimacy to act as a defender of the islamic faith. US based liberals currently see the DOD and their intelligence agencies as fighters of humanitarianism. the Iraq war and all the brutal sanctions that came before it were merely a bump in the road for them.
a part of the reason why this is such an effective tactic is liberals seem to have their trust in the war ministries restored after 5 years of russian concpiracy theories. today they once again think they're a force for good.
all this shit is gonna result in is a cold war.
China is not the enemy is all that I can say. They are a nation that is in the process of figuring it out whereas the western world is in the thick of an ideology that became redundant two centuries ago.
deleted by creator
actually it's cynical & not reflective of the facts on the ground to compare Black America's plight with that of Uyghurs in Xinjiang. I would really say it's the exact opposite
Uyghurs have always had autonomy & legally recognized protected status & statehood in PRC, something Black Americans still yearn for in their country
Black Americans in certain poor & deindustrialized areas do not have any such prospects, whereas Uyghurs voluntarily join these vocational training centres & are given uplift and are integrated into the economy & society
https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2019/08/512399/uyghurs-freely-join-re-education-camps
Black people in many areas in the US actually face far worse demonstrable discrimination & violence by the state than any Uyghur
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
US does need to focus on its own problems, I agree
which means we should probably stop trying to make a boogieman out of PRC offering development to historically underdeveloped areas
deleted by creator
I don't think it's true either way, because US intelligence also claimed just the other day that no genocide is occurring in PRC
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/
But again, all of this is assuming that knee-jerk subconscious reactions & bone-deep Sinophobia aren't the real underpinnings to most of this media barrage in the West
The semantically & factually correct statement would read, "Black America on a normal day faces far worse discrimination & systemic violence than any Uyghur in Xinjiang"
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
George Wilson is the Joker
Real Langoliers energy down here I gotta say.
deleted by creator
I would rather make concise true statements than to clumsily expand & corrupt the commonly accepted meaning of these words and equate the two situations... PRC & USA's social & economic situations & history are not to be equated
I don't need to disarm your talking point, I am just pointing out how cynically it's constructed. If you are at all trying to say that PRC's development & outreach in Xinjiang is comparable to how police treat Black Americans in the US, then it's not a true or semantically correct statement
There is no challenge. The truth doesn't really need our opinions or our imprecise syntactic constructions
deleted by creator
The liberal talking point doesn't have any facts to stand on lol. So all we really need is to point out circa 2014 liberal media coverage of murders & extremist unrest in Xinjiang, and the rest should follow logically
No, it's not up to Marxists to fundamentally change people, all Marxists can do is clarify the conditions that exist & offer alternative analyses & historical context... hopefully point out contradictions & correcting the revolutionary line along the way. People still have to be willing to disengage with liberal & imperialist propaganda, and revolutionary conditions still have to present themselves. Marxists do not create revolution or class consciousness, these are things that take shape regardless of Marxian analysis, they are objective
Marx says that the point is to change the world. I think changing people is far less straightforward than that
deleted by creator
You're right that facts do not care about liberals' feelings, but that's sort of the point of this whole exchange
Yes, we can't fundamentally change people on this metaphysical or spiritual plane, we can only offer clarification of the really existing situation & historical context. There is still "free will" here& usually people in the West will cling to "China bad" or "Russia bad" regardless of the truth
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
give them a pepsi
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
What we should do is engage them in peaceful discourse, and when that fails, we write them a strongly worded letter. They won't be able to recover from that!
deleted by creator
Could also shove some pamphlets in their mailbox about the dangers of isolation and extremism. Folks I think we nailed it
Having laws is also a massive campaign of detention, you're just repeating blood libels
deleted by creator