Violence against Asians is on the rise, hate crimes are up 1900%. And I also don't care how so-called 'pc' reporting Asian hate crimes is. It's very obviously anti-black. Every time Asian-Americans are on the news it's always oriented towards how good they conform to white society. You don't hear about the pain and suffering Asian people have to go through and this leaves ingredients for reactionary behavior. A news reporter referred to Black people as 'the Blacks' the other day. If you look at twitter, reddit, and tiktok comments, there are tons of trolls, the ignorant, and reactionaries stirring up trouble.
A lot of comments from both communities are, "where were asians/blacks when tragedy xyz happened?" A better question is, how come there's a lack of coverage of when both communities come together since the 60s? The media is pitting both communities against each other to cover up the fact that America has failed Black people in all facets of life, and to cover up for its lack of covid-19 prevention.
It makes sense if you consider how often they post the image of the roof Koreans from the King riots.
Black people and east Asians have been pitted against each other as the model minority and bad minority especially among "race realists" for ages. HK and BLM became opposite points in the reddit narrative in order to point at BLM as thugs. It is hardly anything new.
A wise man once said "I'm stupid as shit, I just believe being poor shouldn't be a death sentence"
Those fucking roof korean fedishests, I wish I could throw them off a goddamn roof. I think they get off to the idea of a minority doing their dirty work for them, so they get to remain nice and white and clean.
It's their perfect opportunity to slander black people since you can make it look like you care about asian people. Liberals on reddit are primed by now to sniff out racists when it's white and black people. But since it's violence between two minorities, I suspect their brains are stalled. So without any intervention it's prime dogwhistiling territory. The current threads in this are just full of shitheads coming out of the woodwork to wax poetic about how asians are the "good ones" and black people aren't.
So instead of having a meaningful discussion in good faith about interracial violence, they get to divide and conquer.
Personally, I'm convinced that many online Asian communities have been infiltrated by white wreckers. I wouldn't be surprised if the same were true for many online black communities.
It can't be a coincidence that a surge of people suddenly started caring very much about black on Asian crime at the exact moment Asian groups started to show solidarity with BLM.
It also can't be a coincidence that those people keep trying to steer the Asian diaspora community in exactly the worst ways to get anything done.
Inter-minority solidarity is the only way to overthrow white supremacy. Anyone who says otherwise is either a white supremacist or unbelievably stupid.
I agree, there's some really fucked up anti-black sentiment in parts of the Asian community. Conversely, there's also some really fucked up anti-Asian sentiment in parts of the black community, some of which I have personally experienced. Certainly, there is no group of people who are free of bigotry.
The only way to move past these issues is to engage in constructive inter-minority dialogue. This is also how we can come together and overcome white supremacy.
The main reason that I think wreckers are involved is that some people seem dead set on steering the conversation into a dead end, with nothing but recriminations and isolation instead of understanding and solidarity.
But, like I said, they could just be stupid and racist.
It can’t be a coincidence that a surge of people suddenly started caring very much about black on Asian crime at the exact moment Asian groups started to show solidarity with BLM.
CIA color revolutions use the naturally arising petit bourgeois counter-revolutionaries
The media is putting us against each other but it also doesn’t help when Asians are being anti black themselves.....! We’ve literally done nothing, and yet we always get dragged into unnecessary shit!
I think any conversation around this HAS to acknowledge the asian American business and landlord exploitative presence in black communities in addition to the model minority thing. There are material consequences to this other than just “white man say Asian good, black bad”. Half the times I’ve been accused with stealing, it’s been Asian business owners. Half the buildings I’ve organized have been owned by Asians. Obviously this isn’t an excuse to be bigoted but there’s real shit happening out here and real trends around who owns properties and businesses but the second you say that people are at your throats.
We should also be incredibly honest about how some Asian Americans especially in white environments don’t even carry themselves as POC. (This is probably controversial and I’m sorry for any pain this statement causes) This is obviously a trauma response to being forced to assimilate and very sad, but it’s very much giving me Afro Latinx // when growing up I literally watched latinx people refuse in any and every way to identify as black but suddenly in 2017 everyone is Afro latinx. (I accept it as a valid identity obviously ) but yall want our rhythm and not our blues. (Also can we just take a second to acknowledge how outright confusing it is to be black watching all of these ppl who not only rejected you but were the source of your trauma suddenly say they want to be you??? And then when you take a beat to think it through before accepting it, you’re called a crazy amount of slurs
And we need to be honest about how actual black and Asian people are starting shit. I really don’t believe the whole white infiltrator narrative because one second in nyc and you know that Asians can be incredibly racist towards blacks and vice versa.
I am sensitive to the fact that Asians are being hate crimed at higher rates but black people are still hate crimed the most and don’t manage to turn around and blame other POC races.
I wish people were sensitive to the experience of being on the absolute bottom and still getting shit rained on you for stuff you’re not even doing.
If anything this is a lesson on how black people should just focus on black issues...watching many Asian people go mask off super racist over this shit mixed in with the historical context of African Americans having to March / fight/ organize / get murdered just so everyone else can have rights is fresh.
Yes white society is more primed to be scandalized at anti black jokes vs anti Asian jokes but the consequences of anti blackness seem to end in murder every single time.
I’m so tired of fighting for my life when other relatively privileged races use language and struggle black people themselves have created to put us down. Accordingly, I can’t see “Asian lives matter” as anything other than an anti black statement. Anybody saying that shit to me is getting bopped.
I understand that racial identity is a constantly changing thing (as it should!) but we can’t forget the legit trauma other POC have put on black people (and continue to put on us) just so they can find themselves and use growth aka a DeCoLoNiZED uNdErsTanDiNG as an excuse to ignore the harm they’ve done.
I legit hold my hands in front of my body when shopping at Asian stores. How can that be made good?
While I sympathize with your personal experiences I think this kind of post is inherently not very constructive.
Black folks often say that Black people are not a monolith and should not be judged as such. Rightly so! Asians living in the West are also similarly not a monolith, and should not be treated as such. Moreover, many Asian diaspora groups don't even really share any common ground besides looking vaguely similar to one another and coming from the same continent.
Now I'll be the first to say that there are some within the Asian community with absolutely fucked up and racist views of black people. I've seen it for myself when people feel comfortable conversing in another language they don't think outsiders can understand. On the other hand, theres also many Asians who are sympathetic to other minority groups because they too have tasted oppression under white supremacy. Many Asian groups showed solidarity with BLM, even before the massive uptick in Anti-Asian hate crimes.
Saying that many exploitative and discriminatory businesses are Asian-owned, and turning that around to infer that there's a problem with Asian ethnic groups is problematic for many reasons. For one, some Asian groups (for example the Hmong) are incredibly economically disadvantaged and are unlikely to be in a position to exploit anyone's labor. This can even vary between people who came in different waves of immigration from the same place. Secondly, its similarly vile logic to what white supremacists and other racists have long deployed against the black community - "lots of criminals are black, while not all blacks are criminals, there is a worrying trend that..."
The solution to this is, predictably, an intersectional implementation of dialectical analysis. Exploitative petit bourgeois Asians are exploiting black communities, but they also don't hesitate to exploit Asian communities either! Places like Chinatown in NYC are rapidly becoming gentrified by bourgeois profiteering (a lot by Asian petit bourgeois) that the original poor inhabitants are being forced out with high rents. This is a complex issue of race, class, and history which cannot be distilled down to "Asians are anti-black".
As for Asian Lives Matter, its derivative for sure. However, given that theres been a 1900% increase in anti-Asian hate crimes, I don't think it can be dismissed as a reactionary anti-black slogan like "White Lives Matter" or "All Lives Matter". It's intentionally designed to ride on the coat tails of the larger BLM movement, so I can certainly understand criticizing it as redirecting attention away. However, I think it's fundamentally unhelpful to get dragged into the Oppression Olympics with who is the more oppressed group.
In conclusion, fuck exploitative and exploitative petite bourgeoisie, no matter who they hate and who they exploit. The only way forward is solidarity between the working class, no matter what color our skin is and where we come from.
The Asian community is the poorest in NYC, and Asian owners definitely exploit other Asians first before turning to other communities.
I was trying to really just speak as to what I know (the black experience) but I am sorry for using my unique experience to make broad statements about a very diverse community of people. That wasn’t okay.
I definitely think that the Asian business owner stereotype is a white supremacist one and I am sorry for contributing to it. I don’t know how else to just talk about the fact that there is a phenom of Asian owners exploiting black communities and it seems like nobody else really cares about it / like it can never be said without a whole shit ton of caveats and sometimes distracting language that ignores the fact that we’re dying over here.
Re: Asian lives matter, I don’t think oppression Olympics is at play when black people balk at it at all. This is because we’re not even competing in the same game. BLM is about being murdered by the state. Asians are not. It’s just simple. There’s no comparative work that needs to be done there. While BLM is a stretched issue that covers all anti black oppression which definitely compares to Asians getting more hate crimed, I am very sensitive to keeping BLM within the realm of police violence which Asians do not experience. BLM means many things to many people but for me, it’s non negotiable.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I wish our communities can talk to each other more. I will say that that news broadcast blaming blacks for the crimes really hurt me. It really feels like black people are just existing while everyone else hates us for no reason. I feel like a kid but I’m constantly just wondering “what did I do to make people so mad to the point that they want to constantly kill me”
To be honest I’ve always been extremely jealous of Asian Americans. I wish I could have that access to community, a place to go, knowing where you’re from, having a language even if you don’t speak it. Even your stereotypes seem great (I want people to think I’m smart, as a black woman I want people to fetishize me as attractive, I want people to think I’m wealthy etc). Obviously these are incredibly shit harmful stereotypes that aren’t true and cover up a lot of suffering and racism and pain. but from my side it always seemed nice and even peaceful. (I realize how fucked up that sounds and am sorry)
I think that’s part of the reason why it’s hard for me to even come to terms that black people are racist towards Asians because society and personal experiences have told me so many times that y’all are better so it’s hard to imagine any type of legit punching down relationship but I know that’s wrong and every day I’m trying to work that racism out
Thank you for your very thoughtful reply. I'm really happy that we could share our thoughts and experiences with each other in the spirit of solidarity.
I also absolutely hate how the media and some members of the Asian community have claimed certain recent incidents as ammunition for their racist anti-black crusade. I do my best to push back whenever I can, but sometimes that's just not enough. My hope is that more and more Asians will start to realize over time that this anti-Asian sentiment, even in its recent more extreme form, is only a small taste of the hardships black folks have had to endure for centuries.
Regarding BLM, I now understand why coat tail riding is in bad taste and how it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. To be honest, I'd love for my community to come up with its own slogans and movements. After all, theres no need to play into the stereotype that we Asians lack creativity.
Speaking of stereotypes, I can definitely understand how the stereotypes white society attaches to us can seem attractive. But like you've also already pointed out, those sterotypes are all illusory prisons that come with massive dark sides. Sure, people might think we're smart, but they also think we're calculators who can't lead or create. Sure, they might think Asian women are attractive (but not men, or any darker skinned women), but that comes with yellow fever and China-doll fetishization (and the horrific domestic abuse that often leads to). Sure, people might think we're rich, but often that just paints a target on our backs and makes people unsympathetic to true suffering.
On the other hand, theres also many things I admire about the black community. You have leaders and movements that we have steadily failed to cultivate for decades. You were the driving force behind civil rights and standing up to white supremacy. You managed to defy the odds and win acceptance as part of the American cultural mileau and refused to languish in obscurity. As for sterotypes, I'm an Asian guy, so I've also imagined what it would be like for people to assume I'm cool, good at sports, and have a big dick. The point I'm trying to (crassly) make is that at this point we can probably both tell that this is a case of the grass being greener on the other side.
I suppose in the end, both of our groups have our struggles under white supremacist capitalism. I have no doubt that the black struggle is more arduous than mine, but I still want the wider world to acknowledge the struggles of vulnerable sections of the Asian community (especially the elderly who are being targeted in recent attacks). Still, I remain firm in my belief that there is no other way forward except solidarity between all working peoples, so I'm glad we could have this conversation.
If you talk to me like a slave I will respond as such. Work on not being racist
Bringing up the exploitative relationship Asian owners have in the black community is important because it contributes to tensions between the two communities, even if the victims of the hate crimes aren’t business owners?
It’s also an example of material harm that should be discussed because it’s bad?
I did not know about the FBI surveillance on Chinese Americans. Obviously south Asians /brown Asians have been going through that too for decades due to islamaphobia.
Regardless that is not the same as black people being murdered by the state and I won’t change my stance on “Asian lives Matter” just because Chinese Americans are also being surveilled. (Not that you’re asking me to) But yes it is bad
I mean even when you’re talking about religious buildings, the US has a Proud and Storied History of black churches being firebombed and burnt to the ground. Lynchings, forced sterilization, extrajudicial murder carried out by agents of the state - when people talk about antiblackness (particularly in the USA) it’s not to diminish the various forms of oppression different groups face under a white supremacist state, but to have a clear-eyed view of the specific character of oppression black people have faced in this country for centuries.
And we need to be honest about how actual black and Asian people are starting shit
woke anti-racist who denies agency of anyone who isn't white
I can’t see “Asian lives matter” as anything other than an anti black statement
not all Asians are petit bourgeois business owners.
I legit hold my hands in front of my body when shopping at Asian stores. How can that be made good?
Remind them that the ruling class steals 99% of our stuff and we're just grabbing at crumbs. If they actually cared about theft...
#Not All Asians are petit bourgeois owners but many of the businesses owned in black communities / the landlords of black communities are Asian. Obviously not all but it’s enough of a phenom (of which extreme racism is done against us) that it’s worth mentioning.
This point Isn’t meant to further demonize Asians by painting them as all rich and evil. It’s meant to point out that there is a material exploitative relationship in black nyc communities between Asian and black people that absolutely should be a part of this conversation as it fuels the divide between our communities. ( This also happens throughout the country but ima focus on what I personally know. ) the nyt even just wrote an article about the Asian business presence in black communities !
Also being offended at Asian Lives Matter isn’t a reaction of Asians being owners, it’s a reaction of Black Lives Matter is MINE and not YOURS. And given the absolute anti blackness of the Asian community, is disrespectful as fuck. We say BLM because we are being MURDERED by the state. Asians are not. You don’t get to aid the state’s ritual murder of us (and yes this is what calling the cops on us is) and then take the phrase we created to try to stop that murder.
This is also not just for Asians any type of “___ Lives Matter” used for a race related non black cause is gross as fuck IMO and will always make me side eye.
I’d love to remind the Asian business owners who’ve tried to call the cops on me that were all one people but I’m too busy trying not to die sorry
You are right. The Asian community needs to do better, there are way too many liberals in our community. Secondly, remember that you are in a radical space in this website. I feel that you should not need to mince words for good faith criticism amongst comrades. You said nothing controversial that isn't already well known. Lots of Asians totally buy into the model minority myth. PoC social media tends to intersect, and our dirty laundry is out for the world to see. The liberal wing of Asian identity politics has failed miserably the past few days for being tone deaf and ignorant. I've seen lib Asians asking Black people to hand out receipts once again over Black successes in the Jim Crow era (read a damn book instead of asking black people to do the intellectual labor!), stealing valor from the BLM movement by saying 'Asian Lives Matter', some Asian people (some who may just be white agitators) reacting to 'cultural appropriation' when a Black Woman wears traditional clothes from Asian cultures, etc.
Your feelings and anger are completely valid here. Your post IS constructive. I hope Asian people see this. Ignorance is not an excuse when so much trauma and damage has been done.
Frankly I find it extremely suspicious that every time this rise in anti-Asian hate crimes is brought up in the news defaults on Reddit a legion of posters arrive to regurgitate "The politically correct woke media won't report that this is because black people are racist" and no attention is paid to the role of the massive tide anti-Chinese fearmongering propaganda over the last few years.
