• loathsome dongeater@lemmygrad.mlM
    ·
    1 year ago

    Love seeing how SHOCKED federated folks are at the mere implication of China being better than the US. I feel like if you view the USA from outside a highly myopic lens painted by extreme privilege, there is nothing redeemable about it. Even if the worst theories about China were true, they would be a drop in a bucket compared to how much evidenced misery the US has wrought. But most of the people slinging shit at China rarely care about the folks who are not white in the imperial core.

  • 201dberg@lemmygrad.ml
    ·
    1 year ago

    Imagine seeing what China has done for its people and the members for the belt and road initiative and thinking they are worse than the US dedicating even more money to war is better. People literally just lap up all the piss from the oligarch masters.

    There are so many instances of the CPC just up and forgiving debt from help they have donated to so many countries that are part of this initiative. No strings attached. The US meanwhile has being doing actual debt trap shit for decades. The information is out there. All you have to do is fucking look instead of regurgitating reddit bullshit some fed posted because that site is astroturfed to shit. China is trying to actually build up the world while the US tries to bomb more of it to rubble.

  • taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml
    ·
    1 year ago

    Libs seething that China is a better country that didn't rely on settler colonialism and imperialism to grow it's power

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml
      hexagon
      ·
      1 year ago

      China is an anathema for liberals because it's a tangible real world demonstration that viable alternatives to liberal ideology are possible. The whole argument for liberalism is premised on the idea that liberalism sucks, but everything else is worse.

      Liberals promoted western model as the only viable system going forward ever since USSR dissolved. Any country that deviated from this model was painted as being backwards and a type of country you wouldn't want to live in. Now we're seeing China developing rapidly and going from strength to strength. China doesn't suffer from the economic crashes the west has once every decade, it's continuously improving the standard of living for its people, it coexists peacefully with other countries. It's an example of an alternative model to liberalism that demonstrably produces better outcomes by pretty much every metric. This is why China is such a threat to liberals, it blows apart the argument that nothing better is possible.

      • taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml
        ·
        1 year ago

        They would rather keep living a lie in which they're still the main character and that the world runs on simplistic logic akin to a Marvel movie. The illusion can't be kept up forever with the realities of China slowly dismantling the hegemony, tho tbh it's not like China needs to do much when the US is deleting itself

        • cayde6ml@lemmygrad.ml
          ·
          1 year ago

          I feel like even Marvel is way more complex and nuanced and logical than the vast majority of neoliberal's racist capitalist dogma.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml
          hexagon
          ·
          1 year ago

          Pretty much, and I don't know whether people will ever learn to see past anti-China propaganda in the west, but I've come to realize that the west doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

          It's around 20% of the global population, and the rest of the world will simply move on regardless of what the west does at this point. Majority of the world is the side of China and human progress will continue to march on.

      • Nevoic@lemm.ee
        ·
        1 year ago

        I say this as someone who would be happy to advocate for China if I thought they were advocating for a proper socialist alternative to liberalism but sees things (propaganda?) that turn me off.

        • the Uyghur genocide: is this just Western propaganda that's totally fabricated? Are there no "reeducation camps" and no ethnic cleansing happening?

        • standard anticapitalist takes: landlordism, bourgeoise rule, both things I oppose and seem to be alive and well in China. I see sometimes the State pushes against these forces, but so do European liberals. Walmart couldn't even expand into the EU when they tried due to government regulating their shitty corporate practices so hard (undercutting at a loss to push local businesses out is illegal for example)

        • authoritarianism: children being banned from video games. This one hits close to home for me since I spent easily 40-60 hours a week as a kid some weeks playing video games. My childhood would've been vastly different, and I'm still a programmer who is employed by Alphabet so I'm "successful" and wasn't ruined by video games. Is the idea that video games are a cancer that ruin kids and they should be studying instead? That seems dystopian, I made a bunch of longtime friends playing games growing up (10+ years at this point). I had a lot of fun as a kid. That seems important.

        Essentially China seems like a European country that also happens to be an authoritarian dictatorship. Arguably better than living in the U.S still, no doubt, but when compared to Europe I think China falls short (but socialism doesn't). Europe/China are both incredibly far from where we need to be. Massive liberal exploitation of the masses occurs in both places.

        • loathsome dongeater@lemmygrad.mlM
          ·
          1 year ago

          the Uyghur genocide: is this just Western propaganda that’s totally fabricated? Are there no “reeducation camps” and no ethnic cleansing happening?

          Does this look like ethnic cleansing to you?

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DABhjZjPJDA&pp=ygUOa2FzaGdhciBJbmRpYW4%3D

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i5dpmaeIaZM&pp=ygUOa2FzaGdhciBJbmRpYW4%3D

          Xinjiang had a terrorism problem. There terrorist attacka happening until 2012. The government's crackdown is in response to that and at worst it can be described as overpolicing. Can you name one person who was confirmed dead in this ethnic cleansing and genocide?

          • Nevoic@lemm.ee
            ·
            1 year ago

            I'm just using the international definition of genocide. Not a single person needs to be killed for it to be a genocide, depopulating an ethnicity from a region by destroying birth rates fits the definition too. By the Chinese government's own statistics, birth rates in Hotan and Kashgar fell by 60% from 2015 to 2018. If that was done intentionally, it's genocide.

            • loathsome dongeater@lemmygrad.mlM
              ·
              1 year ago

              I think that is really stretching the practicality of the term in order to label something genocide on a technicality based on ideological dogmatism. It is really hard to imagine a genocide where a single person is not killed. Even ignoring that, genocides always lead to a refugee and emigration crisis which also did not happen in the case of the Uyghur.

              By the Chinese government’s own statistics, birth rates in Hotan and Kashgar fell by 60% from 2015 to 2018.

              Is that enough to determine genocide? What were the birth rates after this drop? Were they in the red, leading to population reduction or stagnation? There are explanations to this drop that are not genocide. For example, ethnic minorities in China have always been lenient targets of China's family planning policies. It is possible that the Uyghur were subjected to stricter family planning post the terrorism crisis for reasons other than genocide.

            • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.mlM
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Many of the "china-watchers", like Adrian Zenz, are anti-abortion, white-supremacist christian evangelicals. They view any reduction in birth rates as a genocide, even if that reduction is caused by more access to birth control. Birth rates in liberal countries, especially in countries like France, Japan, South Korea, the UK, are tanking. Do you agree with the birthers that this constitutes a genocide? (they would call it a white genocide).

              We also see lower birth rates in countries that have higher economic development in general.

          • Uyghur "genocide": complete BS. Vocational training schools (call them "re-education camps" if you wish) did exist because of the severe terrorism problem @ksynwa mentioned. The population of Uyghurs in XInjiang has increased since the anti-terrorism measures were implemented
          • Landlordism and bourgeois rule: only exists on local levels. The reason why the bourgeoisie is still allowed to exist in China is because it's a countermeasure against imperialism, but the CPC (whose higher-level members are chosen through bottom-up democratic elections and can be recalled by the voters if they're unsatisfied, unlike any bourgeois "democracy") is in charge and they crack down on bourgeois criminals, including executing billionaires. The bourgeoisie don't own any land whatsoever, it's only leased from the state and can be revoked
          • "Authoritarianism": every state is inherently authoritarian. Focusing on the limits on online video games for children (single-player games aren't affected) is an extremely silly reason to denounce a socialist project
          • Nevoic@lemm.ee
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I'll have to look into the Uyghur genocide more. Are the figures about 1 million people being put into camps complete bull shit?

            Even if the West is exaggerating the number by an order of magnitude, I still doubt there are 100,000 "terrorists" that needed to be put in camps. Why are the kids put into camps? Are they terrorists too?

            Chinese government official statistics said birth rates in Hotan and Kashgar fell by 60%. If that was done purposefully, it does fall under the international definition of a genocide (which includes preventing some or all births to depopulate a region).

          • Nevoic@lemm.ee
            ·
            1 year ago

            I think you're dismissing the limits on video games far too fast. Maybe to someone that doesn't engage in that as a hobby it might not seem important, but to people in the space it literally redefines our entire childhood. That's not something to just entirely ignore.

            As for bourgeoise rule, there are mega corporations in China. It seems weird to say it only exists on local levels. And even if we just accept that, I don't see how this impacts average workers. Are the workers no longer getting the surplus value of their labor stolen? Do they have proper cooperatives with worker ownership?

            My understanding is they essentially just exist with European-style regulations. Decent minimum wage, some labor protections, and the bourgeoise still steal massive amounts of wealth and exploit workers for 40-60 hours a week without any democratic input on workers about working conditions.

            The note about landlords not truly owning land is how every liberal state functions. Deeds are handed out by the state and can be revoked (eminent domain). And I would still say landlords are a problem in the U.S, even though the government can just take the land back. Same with China.

            • I do enjoy video games as a hobby, and as I said, using a proposed limit (IIRC it's optional) on how much time children can spend playing online games to condemn a government as "not socialist" is bizarre. I don't have to agree with every single relatively minor decision made by the CPC (and it is minor, compared to the immense improvement in living standards -- including the eradication of extreme poverty -- for roughly one fifth of the world's population) to support their immensely successful project.

              Please read the article "China Has Billionaires".

    • reverendz@lemmygrad.ml
      ·
      1 year ago

      And slavery. Don't forget the slavery.

      In fact, because of the wording of the 14th amendment, it's still cool. As long as you get locked up for committing a crime first.

  • CicadaSpectre@lemmygrad.ml
    ·
    1 year ago

    Mad respect to my comrades taking the time to try to engage and educate the liberals who literally refuse to have a positive thought about China. I've never seen one of them actually read an article or respond to the best points; usually they just find what they perceive is the weakest or most controversial argument and focus on that. Anything to deny the fact that sinophobic bias and believing propaganda is 90% of their reasoning for their shit takes. Still, I'm proud of the people in the community that still actively try to educate. I wish I had that patience anymore.

    • ColorcodedResistor@lemm.ee
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      remember when all those people were screaming outside of their windows during covid lockdown? does PNY still have suicide nets installed on campus? hmmm...can you name a business in america that installs suicide nets for its employees?

      "libs refuse to have a positive thought about China"

      oh. I'm sorry i thought dehumanizing and slave work conditions were shitty. i must be wrong :(

      edit: i was mistaken. my local bakery and grocery store both have suicide nets installed. damn.

      • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.mlM
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        remember when all those people were screaming outside of their windows during covid lockdown?

        Not sure what this one is about, but China's focus community health during covid, and the sacrifices made by thousands of Chinese medical personell, made it have one of the lowest covid infection and death rates in the world, despite being the likely point of origin.

        China: 85 deaths per million

        US and UK: ~3,3k per million.

        The US lost a million ppl, more than it lost during ww2, sacrificing it's elderly and infirm on the altar of capitalism.

        Show

        Source: Our World it Data

        does PNY still have suicide nets installed on campus? hmmm...can you name a business in america that installs suicide nets for its employees?

        Foxconn is a Taiwanese comapany, and the PRC is of course not immune to worker abuses in it's specialized economic zones. What matters is the government response, which was to quickly address it.

        Also noteworthy in a given country is the state of despair and hopelessness among it's population.

        Let's compare China to the US, as well as it's liberal neighbors:

        country Suicides per 100k
        China 6.7
        USA 14
        South Korea 21.2
        Japan 12.2

        Source: World Health Organization

        Also I think someone below addressed your Uyghur question, but let's look at whether the world, and Muslim countries in particular (who would be the recipient of a refugee crisis of a genocide were occuring), think about China's handling of extremist terrorism:

        Show

        Interestingly, only the white anglo countries, who've been bombing the ME for decades, believe a genocide is happening. The Muslim (and African, Asian, and Latin American) world disagrees.

        How does the US, UK, France, etc treat it's muslim minorities, and ethnic minorities in general? In the US, 1 / 4 black ppl will spend time in prison.

        Slavery is fully legal as punishment for a crime. The US currently operates a system of slave labor camps, including at least 54 prison farms involved in agricultural slave labor. Outside of agricultural slavery, Federal Prison Industries operates a multi-billion dollar industry with ~ 52 prison factories , where prisoners produce furniture, clothing, circuit boards, products for the military, computer aided design services, call center support for private companies. 1, 2, 3

        In the present day, ICE (U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_Enforcement), the police tasked with immigration enforcement, operates over 200 prison camps, housing over 31,000 undocumented people deemed "aliens", 20,000 of which have no criminal convictions, in the US system of immigration detention. The camps include forced labor (often with contracts from private companies), poor conditions, lack of rights (since the undocumented aren't considered citizens), and forced deportations, often splitting up families. Detainees are often held for a year without trial, with antiquated court procedures pushing back court dates for months, encouraging many to accept immediate deportation in the hopes of being able to return faster than the court can reach a decision, but forfeiting legal status, in a cruel system of coercion. 1, 2

        The US committed a genocide against it's indigenous inhabitants that served as the model for Nazi Germany, and got away with it. They're all incredibly xenophobic with respect to their muslim minorities.

        Which country or group of countries, do you think is telling the truth?

    • CyberSyndicalist [none/use name]
      ·
      1 year ago

      We don't want Hamas to get it though so we'd better give the 100M to Israel in escrow to use on I mean for Palestinians.

      • ButtigiegMineralMap@lemmygrad.ml
        ·
        1 year ago

        “We’re placing the aid underneath chairs and forcing 25 Palestinian citizens along with 25 Israelis to play musical chairs for the aid. That makes it most fair”

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml
      hexagon
      ·
      1 year ago

      I guess it's not strictly news, but wasn't sure where to put it. With things ramping up in the Middle East, it is kind of world news worthy to note that US is aiming to spend 100 billion to continue fuelling the conflicts in Ukraine and Palestine.

    • 201dberg@lemmygrad.ml
      ·
      1 year ago

      China and US are major players on the world stage. The US funding wars and China funding infrastructure to global transport initiatives are pretty globally impactful things.

  • cheese_weiner@lemm.ee
    ·
    1 year ago

    Dude I hate the US political system. But the US beats the hell out of China any day of the week. Attempting to draw any comparison that suggests the US is acting more irresponsibly than China is insulting at best.

    Taiwan. Hong Kong. Tiananmen Sqaure Massacre.

    • BynarsAreOk [none/use name]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Are you aware there not one but two previous attempts at negotiations that Ukraine purposedly sabotaged on their own? Are you even aware Merkel literaly admitted the Minsk agreements were merely attempts to buy time and prepare Ukraine for war.

      You can read the terms here

      All the more remarkable is her admission that the Minsk agreement served to buy time for Ukraine’s rearmament. “It was clear to all of us that this was a frozen conflict, that the problem had not been solved, but that is precisely what gave Ukraine valuable time,” Merkel told Die Zeit.

      Previously, the Minsk agreement, which Merkel signed together with then-French President François Hollande, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko and Russian President Vladimir Putin in September 2014, had been portrayed as an effort towards peace that the Russian president had allegedly later thwarted.

      Now, Merkel confirms that NATO wanted war from the start but needed time to prepare militarily—an assessment WSWS has long held.

      Russia negotiated in good faith while NATO never had any intention of honoring negotiation terms agreed by Ukraine.

      Yes quite literaly if NATO stayed the fuck out of Ukraine there wouldn't be any war, literaly once again, they purposedly broke the agreements which were meant to prevent war and de-escalate.

      Minsk 1 was in 2014. Then there was a second Minsk agreement in 2015.

      Please for the love of god don't parachute into this war as if history began in February 2022 I beg you.

      • Mr. Satan@monyet.cc
        ·
        1 year ago

        All Russian negotiations rely on the agreement for Ukrane to give up a part of invaded lands. That is not going to happen, especially after Crimea in 2014. Russia has no claim to the lands and any negotiations that require them are a joke.

        If Russia is not stopped no agreement will be final, it's all about the ambition to rebuild the Soviet Union and "compromise" won't do it.

        Of course NATO will not directly engage in this war (as sad as it is), that would result in WWIII. It is convieniet for NATO nations that the conflict is in Ukrane, but that does not change the fact Ukrane needs and is getting support indirectly, because NATO has an interest in Ukrane winning.

        Comparing that to China's "priority" for infrastructure in the original post is at best unfair. And while arms racing in general is not a good thing, the original post lumps that together with support for Ukrane. That is the message I take issue with.

        • Aria@lemmygrad.ml
          ·
          1 year ago

          Comparing that to China’s “priority” for infrastructure in the original post is at best unfair. And while arms racing in general is not a good thing, the original post lumps that together with support for Ukrane. That is the message I take issue with.

          Okay, that's a fair point.

          If Russia is not stopped no agreement will be final, it’s all about the ambition to rebuild the Soviet Union and “compromise” won’t do it.

          But what evidence do you have to support this? We have a short and long term history to look at showing NATO going back on their promises, lying, sowing chaos. Russia by comparison has been reliable. Isn't the fair thing then to try to make the compromise survive as long as possible? Because the alternative to compromise is people dying. Even if it's none of your friends, surely you don't want Russians dying either, right?

        • BynarsAreOk [none/use name]
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          All Russian negotiations rely on the agreement for Ukrane to give up a part of invaded lands. That is not going to happen, especially after Crimea in 2014. Russia has no claim to the lands and any negotiations that require them are a joke.

          What are you even talking about? Seriously what part of terms agreed by Ukraine you didn't understand? Please for the love of god actualy read about the stuff you're commenting before replying, thank you.

      • el_bhm@lemm.ee
        ·
        1 year ago

        Ah yes. The famous Russian good faith and NATO forcing their hand into genocides.

        • BynarsAreOk [none/use name]
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          From where any logical and sane person is sitting, only one side commited a historical blunder of actualy admitting to the media that the Donbas war was a "frozen conflict" when in reality there were already peace agreements between both sides.

          Go complain to Merkel for making you look bad. You don't have to believe in Russian good faith if you don't want to, all that is necessary is to admit the actual reality of what happened and what was admitted by the west already.

            • taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml
              ·
              1 year ago

              Say, can you tell me why Russia "invaded" Ukraine and not any of its other much weaker neighbors? I bet you think the conflict started in 2022

              • el_bhm@lemm.ee
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Of course I dont!

                Georgia

                Chechinia

                Afghanistan

                Czechoslovakian Republic got pacified

                China

                Armenia

                Tatarstan

                Lithuania

                Finland

                List goes on

                In last 120 years Russia attacked almost every neighbour.

                Poland fought with Russia 3 times in the last 120 years.

                Will Russia stop at Ukraine?

                  • el_bhm@lemm.ee
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Pact Ribbentrop Molotov.

                    Lets stay on topic of Russia invading every single neighboring country throughout history.

                    • cayde6ml@lemmygrad.ml
                      ·
                      edit-2
                      1 year ago

                      The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was only made to delay the incoming war, you lying crakkker piece of shit. Britain and France rejected alliances with the Soviet Union and actively supplied Nazi Germany with money, guns, equipment, supplies and actively supported reich-wing movements against Soviet liberation and security forces.

                      Don't you even fucking dare compare the USSR's delaying pact to industrialize and build up forces to the dozens of agreements that Britain and France actively set up to work alongside and funding the German fascist war machine.

                      Stay on topic and don't project, crakkker.

                • taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I'm saying why did they attack Ukraine last year (stay on topic please) and not any of its weaker neighbors, which would have been a lot easier

                • m532@lemmygrad.ml
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Finland was nazi axis. You defend nazis.

                  Edit: haha of course you have no clue why they attacked ukraine. No geopolitical knowledge at all.

    • booty [he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Sending guns to Ukraine to keep this awful war going longer doesn't help anyone defend anyone.

      • Mr. Satan@monyet.cc
        ·
        1 year ago

        Yes, but also yes. It does prolong the war, but it also helps to save civilians and push back against an aggressor.

        • notceps [he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          How does it help? Explain to me how supporting Ukraine a country that at this point now just forcibly conscripts anyone helps civilians. Have you talked to any Ukrainian women that had to flee from this conflict and that they haven't hear anything about their husbands brothers and fathers? Were those people not civilians? Or are Ukrainian lives just not a thing? I guess it helps if Ukraine has less and less actual civilians because more and more have to get drafted into the army so some assholes can send another thousand poor people to walk across a minefield to get blown up after all if they are in the army they are no longer civilians.

          You know who it does help? US military contractors. Ukraine has received 76.8bn USD in 2022 from the USA this isn't counting various loans that I'm sure aren't going to be used against Ukraine to force them to privatize everything and enforce austerity policies. EU countries sent double that 140bn USD

          This is in one year from one country, we could end world hunger with a yearly investment of 23bn USD to 40bn USD, this would actually undeniably help save civilians, in fact it would save at least three times as much because the population of ukraine is something under 50mil while the population currently suffering from severe hunger is 150mil.

          The only reason why you've been told that this saves civilians and not you know anything else is because again selling weapons is big business and the only way governments can spend money now I guess, so yes lets save those civilians by forcing them at gunpoint to go walk into a minefield so more and more and more and more and more blood can be fed into this another horrifiyng war to fight over imaginary lines because USA liberty guns or whatever wants their stock to go up.

          If you truly believe in this shit, I think this is more of an online cheerleading thing for you, you should join up and fight the aggressor and prevent putin from doing a genocide or whatever.

          • el_bhm@lemm.ee
            ·
            1 year ago

            Yes, and remember that Russia will absolutely not invade another country.

            • m532@lemmygrad.ml
              ·
              1 year ago

              Projection. Always Projection. The western mouthfrothers can only imagine western crimes and then they project that onto nonwesterners. Pathetic losers.

              • el_bhm@lemm.ee
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Georgia

                Armenia

                Finland

                Lithuania

                Chechnia

                Afghanistan

                Ukraine

                China

                Poland 3 times in less than 25 years.

                Thats last 120 years. So what projection?

                • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Firstly you are conflating Russia and the USSR. Secondly, just saying names of countries without context amounts to nothing more than a gish gallop. But let's go through point by point:

                  Georgia

                  Even a EU commission tasked with investigating the 2008 conflict admitted it was started by Georgia and its US puppet government who attacked and started shelling South Ossetia.

                  Armenia

                  What? Wtf are you even talking about? Russia has consistently protected Armenia and put its own peacekeepers' lives on the line to aid the Armenian people. Are you confusing Russia with Azerbaijan/Turkey?

                  Finland

                  Nazi ally who went on to participate in the Siege of Leningrad that killed over a million people. Encouraged by the British to reject any and all negotiations with the Soviets that could have averted the Winter War.

                  Lithuania

                  Again: what? Are you just pulling random country names out of your ass?

                  Chechnia

                  Not a country. Part of Russia. Russia had every right to subdue US backed terrorist separatists.

                  Afghanistan

                  The USSR was explicitly asked by the government of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan, a Soviet ally and the legitimate government of Afghanistan at the time, to intervene and help them fight the US backed islamist terrorist insurgency.

                  Ukraine

                  Russia intervened in an ongoing civil war that had been raging for eight years following a fascist, US backed coup that ousted the democratically elected president. This after every attempt at negotiating a diplomatic solution was rejected by the Kiev regime and its US masters.

                  Russia acted according to international law and accepted the defensive request of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics which were and still are under attack by Kiev regime forces.

                  China

                  Wtf are kind of drugs are you on? We're talking about real history here not alternate reality fantasies.

                  Poland 3 times

                  Poland invaded the territories of Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania right after WWI while the newly established Soviet Republics were still embroiled in the Russian civil war against the Whites and expeditionary forces of a dozen imperialist nations who invaded Russia to restore the Tsar's tyranny.

                  The Soviet forces fought back but due to being stretched thin Poland managed to steal parts of Ukraine and Belarus in violation of the borders set for Poland after WWI.

                  When the Nazis invaded Poland and the Polish government fled into exile the Polish state ceased to exist. The USSR stepped in to protect the territories of "Eastern Poland" aka the stolen Ukrainian and Byelorussian lands from also being overrun by Nazis.

                  In doing this they saved millions of people and provided safe haven for countless Jews who would undoubtedly have faced extermination otherwise. The Soviets didn't even fight against Polish forces and no one in the international community at the time recognized this as an invasion.

                  As for a third time, do you mean to say that the Red Army's liberation of Poland from Nazi occupation was a "Russian invasion"? Are you pro-Nazi?

          • Mr. Satan@monyet.cc
            ·
            1 year ago

            Oh I don't know, maybe because the same exact thing happened with Crimea. All out war didn't start, but peope died, homes were destroyed and Russia became a little bigger.

            • SexMachineStalin [comrade/them]
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              I'm gonna ask again: Why the fuck was Obomba and his shriveled sentient fleshlight Joe Bellend in Ukraine?

              Spoiler: Crimea took place after the fact.

      • el_bhm@lemm.ee
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Russia will of course stop out of goodness of their little hearts.

        They will not follow up to Poland and Baltics.

        • booty [he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          Ukraine either loses, or they keep fighting and a whole lot more people die and then they lose. Which is better?

            • booty [he/him]
              ·
              1 year ago

              That clearly isn't happening, so Ukrainians have two choices, which is better?

                • Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Gone with the Minsk agreements, which Merkel admitted was just to buy time to arm Ukraine

                  Russia offered multiple chances for peace, but NATO engaged in bad faith.

                  Surely you’ve heard of this saying: “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” Why would Russia let themselves get fooled a third time? That’s just stupidity.

    • el_bhm@lemm.ee
      ·
      1 year ago

      Yes. The exact point of this ampliganda.

      You can pull up crazy numbers China are pushing for building their Navy and contrast it with EU spending on infrastructure and post-COVID investments.

      • Judge_Jury [comrade/them, he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        No you don't understand, Adrian Zenz has that thing that Jim Carrey had in Liar Liar where he can't lie! That's why we have to believe his assertions over all apparent evidence

        • fox [comrade/them]
          ·
          1 year ago

          Man has the divine power to be unable to lie and tries to circumvent it for his career instead of becoming the greatest philosopher and source of truth to ever exist.

  • alt_sense@lemm.ee
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    A lot of brainwashed commies in here

    Edit: Looks like I got all the brainwashed commies upset 🤣

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml
      hexagon
      ·
      1 year ago

      imagine thinking that it's the people who are able to see past the propaganda they're immersed in on daily basis are the ones who are brainwashed 😂

    • O__O [none/use name]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Yeah much more sensible to spend money on killing people rather than improving everyone’s lives.

    • zephyreks [none/use name]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Infrastructure is communist, which is why the US is spending $100 billion dollars on a single HSR line.

      Wait, that's not right.

    • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.mlM
      ·
      1 year ago

      Some foreigners say that our ideological reform is brainwashing. As I see it, they are correct in what they say. It is washing brains, that’s what it is! This brain of mine was washed to become what it is. After joining the revolution, it was slowly washed, washed for several decades.

      What I received before was all bourgeois education, and even some feudal education.

      • Mao Zedong
    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml
      hexagon
      ·
      1 year ago

      Because the west installed a far right proxy regime in Ukraine that has literal fascists in the government and the military. One has to be utterly ignorant not to be aware of this fact given that it's been widely reported in western media:

      • https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/
      • https://www.researchgate.net/publication/299383810_The_Separatist_War_in_Donbas_A_Violent_Break-up_of_Ukraine
      • https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
      • https://www.internationalmagz.com/articles/conversation-with-dmitri-kovalevich
      • https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30414955
      • https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28329329
      • https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/2021-05-04/ty-article/.premium/ukrainian-official-changes-tune-on-unacceptable-march-honoring-ss-unit/0000017f-e0e2-d7b2-a77f-e3e7ee990000 (https://archive.ph/ckwv4)
      • https://www.ft.com/content/7191ec30-9677-423d-873c-e72b64725c2d
      • https://consortiumnews.com/2022/12/29/on-the-influence-of-neo-nazism-in-ukraine/
      • https://consortiumnews.com/2022/12/29/evidence-of-us-backed-coup-in-kiev/
      • https://gordonhahn.com/2015/05/02/ukraines-neo-fascist-right-sector-claims-responsibility-again-for-2-may-2014-terrorist-pogrom/
      • http://www.errc.org/news/anti-roma-pogroms-in-ukraine-on-c14-and-tolerating-terror
        • taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml
          ·
          1 year ago

          They glorify Nazi SS collaborators, they have actual Nazis like Azov Battalion, Right Sector, etc in their military, who also use Nazi symbols and imagery, I honestly could go on

          You could just look up Stepan Bandera and that'll give you what you need

                • zephyreks [none/use name]
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Dude really cited the Kuomintang as evidence of the current Chinese government being Nazi collaborators. I guess One China policy goes pretty far, huh?

                • MoreAmphibians [none/use name]
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  https://www.amazon.com/Germany-Republican-China-William-Kirby/dp/0804712093

                  http://www.shanghai1937.com/a-chinese-in-the-german-wehrmacht/

                  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China–Nazi_Germany_relations

                  I am an in absolute awe of the level of historical illiteracy you just demonstrated. What's it like to go through life with absolutely no understanding of the world? Just thinking whatever the news tells you to think. An absolutely smooth, perfectly frictionless brain existing in an informational vacuum.

                  Did you even read the wikipedia article you linked me? Just the first paragraph should be enough. Here, I'll post it so you don't even have to click the link and I'll also bold the parts of this wikipedia article that you should have read.

                  Nazi Germany and the Nationalist government of the Republic of China maintained bilateral relations between 1933 and 1941. The Chinese Nationalists sought German military and economic support to help them consolidate control over factional warlords and resist Japanese imperialism. Germany sought raw materials such as tungsten and antimony from China. During the mid-1930s, thousands of Chinese soldiers were trained by German officers and German economic investment made its way into China. However, Joachim von Ribbentrop strongly favored an alliance with Japan over one with China, and starting with the 1935 Anti-Comintern Pact, Germany began to realign its East Asia policy. After Japan invaded China in 1937 and Ribbentrop became Foreign Minister the following year, German aid to China was cut off. In July 1941, Nazi Germany severed relations with Nationalist China and transferred their recognition to the Japanese-controlled Wang Jingwei regime. Nonetheless, China did not officially declare war on the Axis Powers until after the attack on Pearl Harbor.

                  Surely even in your liberal bubble you should have known that both China and Taiwan both consider themselves as the real China. You couldn't have looked up which was which? For the other links, the amazon book synopsis is in Chinese and plugging it into google translate is hard, so I'll forgive you for not doing that. But why didn't you at least look at the title of the book and see that it mentioned Republican China. That should have tickled a neuron in your brain. The other books is just flat out about the adopted son of Chiang Kai-shek, the leader of Nationalist China. One of the pictures even mentions him being in the post-war Taiwan military.

                  The rest of your links at least are about the correct China. I'm not going to bother reading them as you obviously just gave me the first six links you found on google without bothering to read them yourself or understand their historical context. I do hope that you read the links that you sent me and come to the correct conclusion that the Taiwan (Republic of China) was a Nazi-collaborationist state and is still friendly with the US to this day. That should put you on the right track to understanding why China (People's Republic of China) is in the right today.

                  • Quaxamilliom [comrade/them]
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    No, you don't understand, when arguing in liberal democracies, the more links you have the more right you are, and the person with the most links to anything wins regardless galaxy-brain .

                • DoiDoi [comrade/them, he/him]
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  I am 100% certain you searched for these sources when confronted just now. Because you have not read these. The book you linked with a synopsis in Chinese is not even on topic. What the fuck did you think you had with that one? Thought the Chinese synopsis would add some extra weight but you don't even know what the ROC is? Embarrassing. Like so bad holy shit.

    • SoyViking [he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Because they're not idiots. They have no interest in emboldening the US empire and weakening their Russian ally. In a hypothetical scenario where the US win in Ukraines, it is likely that a comprador regime reminiscent of the Yeltzin dictatorship would be installed in Russia which would be a national security disaster for China.

      Also, since China is not ruled by idiots, they realise that the Kiev government has no viable way to victory and that prolonging the war doesn't support Ukraine but only leads to more death and destruction.

        • alcoholicorn [comrade/them, doe/deer]
          ·
          1 year ago

          I'm sure the Ukrainian offensive will start any day now. They just have to kick in the door and the whole rotted structure will collapse.

          And then I'm sure the idiots ruling China will collapse the country in the next year. Western media has been saying it's poised to collapse next year for 20 years, but I'm sure they're right this time.

    • zephyreks [none/use name]
      ·
      1 year ago

      The Global South doesn't support Ukraine. Regardless of what politicians say, it's just good policy to not antagonize the countries for which trade with you is growing in the double digits annually.

    • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
      ·
      1 year ago

      https://mronline.org/2022/05/07/russia-and-the-ukraine-crisis-the-eurasian-project-in-conflict-with-the-triad-imperialist-policies/

      The current global stage is dominated by the attempt of historical centers of imperialism (the U.S., Western and Central Europe, Japan—hereafter called “the Triad”) to maintain their exclusive control over the planet through a combination of:

      • so-called neo-liberal economic globalization policies allowing financial transnational capital of the Triad to decide alone on all issues in their exclusive interests;
      • the military control of the planet by the U.S. and its subordinate allies (NATO and Japan) in order to annihilate any attempt by any country not of the Triad to move out from under their yoke.

      In that respect all countries of the world not of the Triad are enemies or potential enemies, except those who accept complete submission to the economic and political strategy of the Triad... In that frame Russia is “an enemy.”

      After the breakdown of the Soviet system, some people (in Russia in particular) thought that the “West” would not antagonize a “capitalist Russia”—just as Germany and Japan had “lost the war but won the peace.” They forgot that the Western powers supported the reconstruction of the former fascist countries precisely to face the challenge of the independent policies of the Soviet Union. Now, this challenge having disappeared, the target of the Triad is complete submission, to destroy the capacity of Russia to resist.

      The current development of the Ukraine tragedy illustrates the reality of the strategic target of the Triad.

      The Triad organized in Kiev what ought to be called a “Euro/Nazi putsch.” To achieve their target (separating the historical twin sister nations—the Russian and the Ukrainian), they needed the support of local Nazis.

      The rhetoric of the Western medias, claiming that the policies of the Triad aim at promoting democracy, is simply a lie. Nowhere has the Triad promoted democracy. On the contrary these policies have systematically been supporting the most anti-democratic (in some cases “fascist”) local forces. Quasi-fascist in the former Yugoslavia—in Croatia and Kosovo—as well as in the Baltic states and Eastern Europe, Hungary for instance. Eastern Europe has been “integrated” in the European Union not as equal partners, but as “semi-colonies” of major Western and Central European capitalist/imperialist powers. The relation between West and East in the European system is in some degree similar to that which rules the relations between the U.S. and Latin America! In the countries of the South the Triad supported the extreme anti-democratic forces such as, for instance, ultra-reactionary political Islam and, with their complicity, has destroyed societies; the cases of Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya illustrate these targets of the Triad imperialist project.

      Therefore the policy of Russia (as developed by the administration of Putin) to resist the project of colonization of Ukraine (and of other countries of the former Soviet Union, in Transcaucasia and Central Asia) must be supported. The Baltic states’ experience should not be repeated. The target of constructing a “Eurasian” community, independent from the Triad and its subordinate European partners, is also to be supported.

  • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    My problem with this message is that it's being sent by the same people whose legislators would never decrease defence spending and would spend the bare minimum on infrastructure. In fact, just recently, the House Republicans managed to pass H.R. 4365 with 216 R and 2 D, a 826 Bn USD Defence Budget, which is an increase of 26 Bn since the previous year and 100 Bn more than the year before that.

    Yall don't give a fuck about infrastructure or deficit unless somebody else is president.

    • Aria@lemmygrad.ml
      ·
      1 year ago

      That's a weird comment? I think Xi Jinping is doing a great job as president. Oh wait, you're thinking of Miguel Bermúdez, my bad, that was silly of me.

      This is a weird comment, I think Miguel Bermúdez is doing a great job as president.

      • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
        ·
        1 year ago

        Oh ha ha did the post not specifically mention the USA? Did it not talk about the USA spending specifically on supporting Ukraine defence and sovereignty, an issue divided by partisanship? I wonder what temporary president I would be talking about, is it the literal dictator for life Xi Xinping? HMMMM such a mystery I clearly made a mistake lololol. /sarcasm

        • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.mlM
          ·
          1 year ago

          https://www.quora.com/What-kind-of-democracy-does-the-China-have/answer/Godfree-Roberts?share=0ac8c628&srid=JMzz

          • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
            ·
            1 year ago

            You're trying to massage the idea that a leader for life, who can never be removed because no other party can have a seat in their congress, is a functioning democracy? Really? What a hill to die on.

            • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              The party can always remove any leader including Xi Jinping if he is no longer performing his role according to the party and the people's expectations. Also, there are numerous (at least eight) other parties represented in the National People's Congress of China other than the CPC. On top of that there is a larger proportion of independents than in the US congress. But this is beside the point because it would still be a democratic system even if there was only one party allowed.

              • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                He won with 100%. 2,952 votes present and for.

                A dissident in the Chinese congress gets removed with immediate effect.

                He is dictator for life.

                • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Tell me you have no idea how China's political system works without telling me you have no idea how China's political system works.

                  Also, are you going to admit you were wrong when you claimed, quote

                  "no other party can have a seat in their congress"

                  or are you just going to sweep that lie or embarrassing admission of ignorance under the rug?

                  Why are you moving the goalposts? If Xi Jinping has to be periodically confirmed in his position by the representatives of the Chinese people then he is not "dictator for life" then is he? The fact that you cannot imagine a political consensus like that existing over a genuinely successful and popular leader is simply a testament to the dysfunction of your own liberal western political systems.

                  Furthermore, please show us evidence for this claim:

                  "A dissident in the Chinese congress gets removed with immediate effect."

                  Where in China's laws does it say this and when has this ever happened?

                  • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    LMAO, nice quote who is it from? Even children make better arguments than to make up a statement and claim it's a quote of the other person.

                    I think the burden of proof would be on you in this case.

                    • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
                      ·
                      edit-2
                      1 year ago

                      Literally you two comments ago:

                      "You're trying to massage the idea that a leader for life, who can never be removed because no other party can have a seat in their congress, is a functioning democracy? Really? What a hill to die on."

                      Will you admit you were wrong or will you deny your own words?

                      • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
                        ·
                        1 year ago

                        Ah right, that's fair, feels odd that you'd quote me further back in response to a newer comment. You know that was literally a week ago?

                        But no, my point still stands, Xi Jinping cannot be removed from power and his party cannot lose control of congress.

                        • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
                          ·
                          edit-2
                          1 year ago

                          Xi Jinping cannot be removed from power and his party cannot lose control of congress

                          You are conflating two entirely different things here.

                          One is whether Xi Jinping can be removed from power, which he absolutely can by the congress and the party choosing not to re-elect him. Whether or not this will happen depends on how well he does his job and when he will become too old to be fit to govern.

                          Another is whether the Communist Party of China can lose control of congress, something which it can only do if the people lose confidence in their rule. China as a socialist state of course has it enshrined in law that the reins of power will always be held by the Communist Party. That is a good thing.

                          The Communist Party represents the working class and the working class is in charge under socialism. That is called the dictatorship of the proletariat and it's what socialism is about. Sorry but we are communists here and we are not going to make excuses for liking the fact that communists rule in a communist country.

                          The approval rating of the CPC government among the Chinese people is over 90% even according to western studies and polls by the way. Why remove a leader and a ruling party when by all metrics they are doing a fantastic job?

                          • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
                            ·
                            edit-2
                            1 year ago

                            Xi Jinping won with 100% of the congressional vote, I'm not conflating anything here.

                            The CPC is corrupt as fuck, they're not representing the interests of all the districts much less the lower class.

                            He's a dictator who cannot ever be removed from power.

        • Aria@lemmygrad.ml
          ·
          1 year ago

          Let's dissect this. In your original comment, you ascribed an origin to OP, and implied a motivation for them. This is the crux of me making fun of you. OP is extremely unlikely to be from the USA, or make a distinction between the two wings of the bureaucracy making up the regime in power in the USA. Xi Jinping has held his current position for 11 years, Miguel Bermúdez for 4 years. Neither are dictators, because they are leaders of democracies. Hope this was informative.

            • Aria@lemmygrad.ml
              ·
              1 year ago

              It would. Who are you talking about? Xi Jinping? Xi Jinping is not leader for life, he's leader as long as he's re-elected. He's also not the leader of the government, China has a Prime Minister, you doofus. His party is also not the singular party that makes up the government. http://www.cppcc.gov.cn/zxww/2023/01/18/ARTI1674005617470226.shtml

              And something you left out is that the party he's from is literally the communist party of China, which means his party's special interest group is the people of China. Which is what democracy is. But a party representing and subservient to the people is a foreign concept to people who live in dictatorial countries and have to choose which powerful aristocrat to align themselves with.

              • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
                ·
                1 year ago

                Xi Jinping won reelection with 100% of the vote. 2,952 out of 2,977 congressional votes were present and voted for him which is a 100.00% margin.

                Xi Jinping and his singular party removed the term limit for Xi Jinping, meaning as long as his party is in control then he will always be president. For Life.

      • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
        ·
        1 year ago

        I really don't, the people who spread this sort of message and take a stand against the USA supporting Ukraine defence and sovereignty are majority Republicans. Theres even top comments on this post talking about "the libs" in a derogatory manner.

        • taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml
          ·
          1 year ago

          You really do.

          Republicans want to stop funding Ukraine cause they want war with China. We want them to stop funding Ukraine because it would be the quickest way to end the conflict peacefully.

          Republicans are libs too. Libs are anyone who support capitalism and it's ideals.

          • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Lmao Republican voters don't give a f*** about China. They just think Russia is their friend, which makes the largest foreign threat in their eyes China as a fallback.