• hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
    ·
    edit-2
    4 years ago

    Venezuela and Bolivia aren't worker's states, but they're making progress in that direction, and they've done so despite significant opposition. They're not perfectly analogous to the U.S. in 2021, but they're probably a closer comparison than Cuba in 1959 or Russia in 1917.

    I'm not denying that there are problems with electoral politics. You bring up plenty of good points. But the bottom line is that the other paths to socialism are even less likely to come to fruition.

    When have the ruling interests really been scared of the US left? It hasn’t been often.

    You know when they were most scared of the left? Under FDR. They didn't organize the Business Plot against the Black Panthers; they just shot them.

      • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Of come on, FDR did not strike fundamental fear into the capitalist class.

        They planned a coup. They planned to dismiss any pretense of democratic government. That's far more serious than domestic repression (which predated the Business Plot and would have continued after).

        I'm fine with non-electoral organizing and action. We should be pursuing every available avenue because no one knows for sure how to build socialism in the imperial core. What I oppose is dismissing the most visible and effective electoral strategy. It's not great, but it's a better bet than anything else.

          • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
            ·
            4 years ago

            And didn’t try to execute it as they could see he wasn’t a fundamental threat to their interests.

            What stopped the coup was the guy they recruited to lead it -- Smedley Butler. He blew the whistle on the whole thing because he had developed strong anti-imperialist politics by that point in his life. It wasn't shelved, it got revealed.

            And yes, plotting to forcibly overthrow the President of the United States of America is a far more serious reaction than persecuting anarchists in the 1920s or Maoists in the 1960s. It's the difference between going after the most powerful person in the country and going after fringe radicals.

            Entryism into the Democratic Party

            making an independent socialist political party

            We've tried both -- it's basically the DSA/Bernie approach vs. the PSL approach. I don't see any argument that the PSL approach has produced more results by any metric.