Andrei Suslenkou, director for ideological work at the Minsk Tractor Factory, is proudly showing off the benefits his company offers, at low or no cost, to more than 30,000 workers and retirees. At the plant’s health clinic, 560 doctors and staff use sleek Western equipment to provide care from routine checkups to surgery, including laser eyesight correction. A Palace of Culture opposite the factory’s ornate, Stalin-era gates includes a plush theater wired for light and sound. It just hosted a concert in honor of the “Day of Machine Builders.” Outside the capital, a woodland sanatorium provides cures, vacations, and summer camps for 300 employees’ kids at a time. “They were smart professionals back then who set up these social services,” says Suslenkou, adding that he audited the system Soviet planners made for the factory and found little “excess” to cut.
Basically shows how good Belarus has had it compared to every other ex-Soviet state up to now. Just look at this graph.
The conversation has been made off-topic.
That is a non-sequitur argument.
I, debat-o-bot, will have to deduct one logic point for your side.
Please try to keep your arguments salient in the future.
And how is that ever going to happen with capitalists being free as well to exert their power and influence?
Who is going to keep that and outside interventions in check?
No, implying thats a situation where there needs to be a fucking state
Or is your utopia just going to spring into existence? Global wokeness over night?
I guess not, so who will protect you against the inevitable? There is a very obvious need for some form of organised state.
And on the matter of dictatorship, maybe read up on the marxist definition of dictatorship of the proletariat vs dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.
IMO: If you cannot accept that there needs to be a state to fend off internal and external counterrevolutionaries, then whatever you want as an utopia is a pipedream.
But maybe so we can understand each other's thoughts better, I'm genuinely interested, what your idea of transforming society from our capitalist hellworld to a communist society could/should look like?
i dunno i see the easiest way for the workers to gain power is through an organized revolutionary union movement (control of industry and trade) where there arent any ways for strong qlicues that have strong motives to only work for themselves to gain power
unfortunately without one your [whatever you want to call your project besides a state] won't be able to defend against the remaining states and the project ends
The "whatever you want to call your project besides a state" dig betrays the fact that you don't even understand the most basic concept of ML ideology--the idea that the dictatorship of the proletariat will "wither away" when true, stateless communism is achieved. If you can't even conceive of and don't want to strive for a stateless society, you're not a communist.
"Whatever you want to call your project besides a state..." It's called communism. That's what communism is. I'm not even an anarchist, but this is not how you engage with anarchism as an ML.
"Only in communist society, when the resistance of the capitalists have disappeared, when there are no classes (i.e., when there is no distinction between the members of society as regards their relation to the social means of production), only then "the state... ceases to exist", and "it becomes possible to speak of freedom". Only then will a truly complete democracy become possible and be realized, a democracy without any exceptions whatever. And only then will democracy begin to wither away, owing to the simple fact that, freed from capitalist slavery, from the untold horrors, savagery, absurdities, and infamies of capitalist exploitation, people will gradually become accustomed to observing the elementary rules of social intercourse that have been known for centuries and repeated for thousands of years in all copy-book maxims. They will become accustomed to observing them without force, without coercion, without subordination, without the special apparatus for coercion called the state."
lmao how could communists drive themselves in a position where theyre being overthrown by malicious imperialists especciallty when theyre in full controll of a country
Literally all of them, because their existence is a threat to capital. Every socialist project that has ever gained international attention has come under relentless imperialist siege.
Why sho8uld people ever tolerate a dictatorship even if they were "socialists"
The same way we're forced to tolerate your dogshit ultra posts.
If only I post hard enough you'll go away and a better poster will appear the same way a better alternative to Lukashenka will just appear.
as long as youre going to suck stalins dick no one is going to take you seriously
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING
The conversation has been made off-topic.
That is a non-sequitur argument.
I, debat-o-bot, will have to deduct one logic point for your side.
Please try to keep your arguments salient in the future.
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING
Purged by red fash again 😞
Imagine using the term Red Fash while having Enver Hoxha as your username lmao
all states are class dictatorships. choose your fighter
I guess i dont want a state then
And how is that ever going to happen with capitalists being free as well to exert their power and influence?
Who is going to keep that and outside interventions in check?
Inmlpying thats a situation where therer needs to be a fucking dictatorship
No, implying thats a situation where there needs to be a fucking state
Or is your utopia just going to spring into existence? Global wokeness over night?
I guess not, so who will protect you against the inevitable? There is a very obvious need for some form of organised state.
And on the matter of dictatorship, maybe read up on the marxist definition of dictatorship of the proletariat vs dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.
Sorry i dont want dictarors to have any fucking chance to gain power
IMO: If you cannot accept that there needs to be a state to fend off internal and external counterrevolutionaries, then whatever you want as an utopia is a pipedream.
But maybe so we can understand each other's thoughts better, I'm genuinely interested, what your idea of transforming society from our capitalist hellworld to a communist society could/should look like?
i dunno i see the easiest way for the workers to gain power is through an organized revolutionary union movement (control of industry and trade) where there arent any ways for strong qlicues that have strong motives to only work for themselves to gain power
Then don't leave them a nice, undefended non-state to invade.
unfortunately without one your [whatever you want to call your project besides a state] won't be able to defend against the remaining states and the project ends
The "whatever you want to call your project besides a state" dig betrays the fact that you don't even understand the most basic concept of ML ideology--the idea that the dictatorship of the proletariat will "wither away" when true, stateless communism is achieved. If you can't even conceive of and don't want to strive for a stateless society, you're not a communist.
"Whatever you want to call your project besides a state..." It's called communism. That's what communism is. I'm not even an anarchist, but this is not how you engage with anarchism as an ML.
"Only in communist society, when the resistance of the capitalists have disappeared, when there are no classes (i.e., when there is no distinction between the members of society as regards their relation to the social means of production), only then "the state... ceases to exist", and "it becomes possible to speak of freedom". Only then will a truly complete democracy become possible and be realized, a democracy without any exceptions whatever. And only then will democracy begin to wither away, owing to the simple fact that, freed from capitalist slavery, from the untold horrors, savagery, absurdities, and infamies of capitalist exploitation, people will gradually become accustomed to observing the elementary rules of social intercourse that have been known for centuries and repeated for thousands of years in all copy-book maxims. They will become accustomed to observing them without force, without coercion, without subordination, without the special apparatus for coercion called the state."
-Lenin
I see you repeating those words but I do not understand the significance
It's not about "tolerating dictatorship", it's about not supporting yet more western imperialism. This isn't difficult
lmao how could communists drive themselves in a position where theyre being overthrown by malicious imperialists especciallty when theyre in full controll of a country
Ever read about colonialism? shit's wack
How is it possible to understand this little about history?
Literally all of them, because their existence is a threat to capital. Every socialist project that has ever gained international attention has come under relentless imperialist siege.
How does the Soviet republic of Belarus differ from Albania and Hoxha in this regard?