I consider veganism to be the simplest test of whether someone is capable of thinking about right and wrong and applying the results to their life.
If a person thinks it's right to kill someone because of the pleasurable taste of their corpse, their breast milk, or their unfertilized ova, then it's pretty clear that either that person is confused about the difference between right and wrong or thinks the difference is of little relevance to their actions.
The truth is, to a significant extent, most people are like that. Our moral behavior is informed more by the signals we get from the people around us regarding what behavior is good and what is bad than by a process of moral reasoning. When people sense that they are wrong according to the standards of a group they care about, they adjust their behavior.
In short, this is why /c/vegan is doing more good than the whole rest of this website. Stay based, vegan comrades. Go vegan, carnists.
posting on a niche website does more for humanity than fighting for workers rights in the struggle to rebuild trade and industrial unionism in america.
Global veganism is 100% needed to save the world from global warming. Ever person that bullies someone into becoming a vegan is working to save humanity.
I see this kind of like slave owners yelling "No ethical consumption under capitalism! I'm not the one procuring the slaves, I'm just the hapless consumer"
nono, I figured it would take less time to articulate in a more lib sounding manner than writing out a thesis. The material conditions that will make veganism necessary are arriving. Regardless movements start with actual people, even if the material conditions haven't arrived yet. Being in the imperial core, they will arrive to us last.
For the global south to be habitable tomorrow, we need communism and veganism today.
Almost every single person on this website would agree that industrial meat farming is a fucking horror show that needs to be abolished.
How do you think antagonizing people that agree with the above statement is a good way to start this movement?
It is OK to be frustrated that the movement seems to have little momentum. All leftists feel that. However in a space such as this one which is non-sectarian, many of us would like to not lash out at each other over this frustration.
What is happening is your particular movement is lashing out at other leftists and saying pretty shitty things. This makes people not want to engage with you and lessens the authority of your voice.
I'm responding to a very specific comment, I fully understand that there is actually vegan theory out there that has important things to say and I have read some of it.
This has nothing to do with what I was initially responding to.
This is the stupidest fucking argument, oh my god. Here's a similar situation, for comparison.
Right now, as I type, there are concentration camps for migrants on the southern border of the US. I find this morally abhorrent. I'm in the US (as are many of us here, because, unfortunately, the US is the current global hegemon). I have never, not once, seen anyone on hexbear say that I (and the rest of the Americans here) don't actually care about the migrants in camps on our southern border.
But suddenly if a vegan believes paying people to torture and kill animals is wrong, then the only way to prove we care is to do extremely illegal, very dangerous acts of sabotage on factory farms.
That's a pretty massive double standard right there.
If you think your theory is the way forward, put it into practice by attempting to organize in the real world instead of wasting your life posting on the internet.
I apologize for seeming sincere with my sarcasm. I unfortunately have been around for all of them. On another account (for opsec reasons) I received death threats for being mildly annoyed that my grandfather who survived a concentration camp was dismissively being compared to livestock by using a quote from a concentration camp survivor that was actually not clearly able to be attributed to him at all.
That user is actively involved in the current re-igniting of the drama just to add to the hilarity.
It so delights me that the comment above yours is unironically posted within a thread lampooning the latest struggle session. And their comment and the ones like it scattered about could quite possibly restart the same struggle session everyone is making fun of.
Not me, though. I'm out. I'm done asking questions for the day.
Just remember this moment. Savor it. Take a screenshot, maybe. And then keep in mind all this crazy shit you're reading right now will go unpunished (no warnings; no bans) and everything written will be forgotten and most likely deleted. Six months from now if you dare bring it up, someone will most likely call you a liar while they attempt to invalidate you and/or possibly harass you.
You misunderstood that person. They said that in order to have a war against slavery, you first need to have a lot of people that oppose it. Abolitionists needed to organize before abolitionist politicians could get elected, which needed to happen for the south to feel threatened enough to secede. The comparison was between bullying carnists and that prewar abolitionist organizing.
Kinda gauche, but yeah. They were saying revolutions need mass support. I'm shocked, absolutely shocked, that people are talking past each other in a struggle session that's escaped the confinement sub.
bullying people into stopping eating meat is the same as fighting a war for the abolition of slavery
you don't seem to have understood it here. You would have said "bullying people into stopping eating meat is the same as bullying people into freeing their slaves" or similar. it's fine and normal to disagree, carnists resist any comparison of animal suffering to human suffering.
obviously I'm vegan (you could check my post history for that, and for some video recommendations) but I don't want to formulate a careful opinion on this fraught slavery comparison. I don't think the quoted statements are controversial; carnists like you just make substantive arguments about how humans and animals are different when faced with a comparison. If you believe that, you should be replying with "yeah and?".
There's no block or unfollow button on this site, so you're welcome to take the last word. You can edit it too if you want :)
non-sapient animals aren't people. Your whole thing here hinges on a cricket having the same moral value as a human and i don't think you actually believe that either because you'd be like the anti-abortion terrorists if you really thought there was a cow holocaust going on.
Like for real, why do you think the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act exists? Why do you think animal and environmental activists are considered the number one domestic terror threat in the US? You think it's because we've been sitting around doing nothing?
Look, I know this history isn't taught in schools, but the information is out there if you bothered to look.
Do you not know what fuck off means? This is fucking harassment. I'm not posting whether or not I've engaged in illegal activism that I just made clear could be considered terrorism by the federal government. Repeatedly demanding that I do so is fucking FED SHIT. FUCK OFF
There are a ton of vegan political prisoners. And a lot of us do sab and rescues. We can actually do that and fight for them on forums with reactionaries
it's a little different because most people don't have abortions very often. I'd feel the same as you about nominally anti-abortion people who have abortions anyway
Alright, I’ll take your point if we’re going by the literal definition of sapient, i.e wise or pertaining to humanity. But consciousness among animals is well observed at this point, and I don’t think my slight semantic misstep negates that fact.
I mean this is literally how we made supporting trans rights mandatory in leftist spaces. With a little effort we can make leftism synonymous with veganism.
Actually fuck this, animals are slaves. They're literally fucking chattel forced to do labor for us. They're separated from their familles, their cultures are disrupted and destroyed, they resist their bondage but are beaten and broken into submission. Go ahead and lick the boots of slaver owners, but don't pretend that nonhumans aren't slaves in material reality.
Banned sweepy from the community news
reason: Running defense for child pornography. {You conflate products of real child abuse with victimless simulations, and say that everyone who consumes either one is a “pedophile”}
meanwhile I get banned for: complaining about someone wishing death on me not getting banned
I consider veganism to be the simplest test of whether someone is capable of thinking about right and wrong and applying the results to their life.
If a person thinks it's right to kill someone because of the pleasurable taste of their corpse, their breast milk, or their unfertilized ova, then it's pretty clear that either that person is confused about the difference between right and wrong or thinks the difference is of little relevance to their actions.
The truth is, to a significant extent, most people are like that. Our moral behavior is informed more by the signals we get from the people around us regarding what behavior is good and what is bad than by a process of moral reasoning. When people sense that they are wrong according to the standards of a group they care about, they adjust their behavior.
In short, this is why /c/vegan is doing more good than the whole rest of this website. Stay based, vegan comrades. Go vegan, carnists.
I'm not sure I buy the model of posting on a shitposting website as an activity capable of moral status.
posting on a niche website does more for humanity than fighting for workers rights in the struggle to rebuild trade and industrial unionism in america.
Global veganism is 100% needed to save the world from global warming. Ever person that bullies someone into becoming a vegan is working to save humanity.
You understand there are structural factors at play right????
Like this is exactly like the libs who brow beat the poor's for not having Tesla lmfao
The cows are getting slaughtered so long as capitalists own industrial meat factories
Yelling on the Internet and telling leftists they are worthless is less than fucking useless against that
I see this kind of like slave owners yelling "No ethical consumption under capitalism! I'm not the one procuring the slaves, I'm just the hapless consumer"
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Oh my fucking God shut the fuck up
Mine eyes have seen the coming of the banning of the lard
I mean ok if that's where the sites at
I'm just riffing on civil war songs.
Oh my bad
lol ok this one got me.
I'm just saying, if you want to fight in the vegan wars, stop eating meat and start bullying libs.
Removed by mod
Creating the conditions necessary to elect the vegan governing body. Change starts with you and me!
Removed by mod
nono, I figured it would take less time to articulate in a more lib sounding manner than writing out a thesis. The material conditions that will make veganism necessary are arriving. Regardless movements start with actual people, even if the material conditions haven't arrived yet. Being in the imperial core, they will arrive to us last.
For the global south to be habitable tomorrow, we need communism and veganism today.
Almost every single person on this website would agree that industrial meat farming is a fucking horror show that needs to be abolished.
How do you think antagonizing people that agree with the above statement is a good way to start this movement?
It is OK to be frustrated that the movement seems to have little momentum. All leftists feel that. However in a space such as this one which is non-sectarian, many of us would like to not lash out at each other over this frustration.
What is happening is your particular movement is lashing out at other leftists and saying pretty shitty things. This makes people not want to engage with you and lessens the authority of your voice.
ACAB includes tone police
Cool response
😔
Have you read any vegan marxist theory? Doesn't seem like it
If your theory is if we all just make marginal changes individually and hold hands to enact change then it's fucking stupid
So your answer is no, you haven't
Here: https://hexbear.net/post/221913
I'm responding to a very specific comment, I fully understand that there is actually vegan theory out there that has important things to say and I have read some of it.
This has nothing to do with what I was initially responding to.
Okay
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
Lmao hell yeah. If that's actually how they feel then let's see it. Wholeheartedly agree with this post
:fedposting:
Removed by mod
What the fuck do you know about what vegans are doing? It's clear you know less than nothing
This is the stupidest fucking argument, oh my god. Here's a similar situation, for comparison.
Right now, as I type, there are concentration camps for migrants on the southern border of the US. I find this morally abhorrent. I'm in the US (as are many of us here, because, unfortunately, the US is the current global hegemon). I have never, not once, seen anyone on hexbear say that I (and the rest of the Americans here) don't actually care about the migrants in camps on our southern border.
But suddenly if a vegan believes paying people to torture and kill animals is wrong, then the only way to prove we care is to do extremely illegal, very dangerous acts of sabotage on factory farms.
That's a pretty massive double standard right there.
Stop paying people to torture and kill animals.
Go vegan.
:vegan-liberation:
If you think your theory is the way forward, put it into practice by attempting to organize in the real world instead of wasting your life posting on the internet.
I only post here for an hour or two after work lol. Plenty of time for real life as well as a few posts.
lol
Uh huh.
deleted by creator
I guess I should amend that to be moral status except for the immediate emotional effect on other posters.
deleted by creator
I dont even find morality to have any validity.
https://hexbear.net/post/221668
If something works for one person, it must be a good strategy for reaching the masses.
Wait are vegans being bullied or are they doing the bullying? It's so hard to keep up with this manufactured narrative.
deleted by creator
I apologize for seeming sincere with my sarcasm. I unfortunately have been around for all of them. On another account (for opsec reasons) I received death threats for being mildly annoyed that my grandfather who survived a concentration camp was dismissively being compared to livestock by using a quote from a concentration camp survivor that was actually not clearly able to be attributed to him at all.
That user is actively involved in the current re-igniting of the drama just to add to the hilarity.
yes
Yeah, I'm also seeking validation when I post, but in a different way.
Lol holy shit fuck off
This is the most lib shit I've ever fucking seen. Someone call mao.
We're just handwringing over fucking moralism at this point. What the hell
Got some vegan friends that went to peru. 12k elevation everyone is surviving off meat. They are no longer vegan.
It so delights me that the comment above yours is unironically posted within a thread lampooning the latest struggle session. And their comment and the ones like it scattered about could quite possibly restart the same struggle session everyone is making fun of.
Not me, though. I'm out. I'm done asking questions for the day.
Yeah I read some of it earlier and decided to bounce off the site for awhile, yet here I am
Here we are, 15 minutes later.
Wow.
There's a person telling me that bullying people into stopping eating meat is the same as fighting a war for the abolition of slavery
Scratch that, in fact it is more important
Just remember this moment. Savor it. Take a screenshot, maybe. And then keep in mind all this crazy shit you're reading right now will go unpunished (no warnings; no bans) and everything written will be forgotten and most likely deleted. Six months from now if you dare bring it up, someone will most likely call you a liar while they attempt to invalidate you and/or possibly harass you.
You misunderstood that person. They said that in order to have a war against slavery, you first need to have a lot of people that oppose it. Abolitionists needed to organize before abolitionist politicians could get elected, which needed to happen for the south to feel threatened enough to secede. The comparison was between bullying carnists and that prewar abolitionist organizing.
Kinda gauche, but yeah. They were saying revolutions need mass support. I'm shocked, absolutely shocked, that people are talking past each other in a struggle session that's escaped the confinement sub.
No I understood it, what I'm not cool with is equating the two struggles.
They aren't organizing by harassing leftists in a non sectarian leftist space either, yet they were equating that as well.
you don't seem to have understood it here. You would have said "bullying people into stopping eating meat is the same as bullying people into freeing their slaves" or similar. it's fine and normal to disagree, carnists resist any comparison of animal suffering to human suffering.
Lmfao dude you can't be for real
I haven't even explicitly stated my own beliefs other than calling the user's comparison gauche. Have a nice night, enjoy the struggle session
obviously I'm vegan (you could check my post history for that, and for some video recommendations) but I don't want to formulate a careful opinion on this fraught slavery comparison. I don't think the quoted statements are controversial; carnists like you just make substantive arguments about how humans and animals are different when faced with a comparison. If you believe that, you should be replying with "yeah and?".
There's no block or unfollow button on this site, so you're welcome to take the last word. You can edit it too if you want :)
I'm explicitly not reading this and posting anyways
Made sure to edit it as well cuz I caught the last line unfortunately
HahahahhahahahahahahshHahahabahahabshshahahahaha
The 2010s internet atheist vibes are crescendoing
:up-yours-woke-moralists:
non-sapient animals aren't people. Your whole thing here hinges on a cricket having the same moral value as a human and i don't think you actually believe that either because you'd be like the anti-abortion terrorists if you really thought there was a cow holocaust going on.
its literally just "its bad to hurt and kill thinking, feeling beings that dont want to die when you could just go and eat a bean instead"
its not that hard
so go sabotage equipment then. western infrastructure is fragile you could go Andreas Malm it up and save a lot of animal lives.
or you could go and eat a bean
"My murder is justified as long as you aren't willing to get yourself killed doing damage that could be fixed in a week" :soypoint-1:
Removed by mod
then eat a tofu or a lentil or something, its really not that hard
Tofu is made of beans smdh stupid vegan I’ll stick to my ground up offal burger tyvm
there are millions of anti-abortion people who don't do bombings. most people don't do adventurism regardless of politics.
Removed by mod
Like for real, why do you think the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act exists? Why do you think animal and environmental activists are considered the number one domestic terror threat in the US? You think it's because we've been sitting around doing nothing?
Look, I know this history isn't taught in schools, but the information is out there if you bothered to look.
https://theintercept.com/2019/03/23/ecoterrorism-fbi-animal-rights/
Removed by mod
Fuck off, asshole
Removed by mod
Fuck off, fed
Removed by mod
Do you not know what fuck off means? This is fucking harassment. I'm not posting whether or not I've engaged in illegal activism that I just made clear could be considered terrorism by the federal government. Repeatedly demanding that I do so is fucking FED SHIT. FUCK OFF
Removed by mod
I don't need to use the word "disengage." I could tell you to stop replying. I could tell you to fuck off, oh, and I have, over and over.
Removed by mod
There are a ton of vegan political prisoners. And a lot of us do sab and rescues. We can actually do that and fight for them on forums with reactionaries
it's a little different because most people don't have abortions very often. I'd feel the same as you about nominally anti-abortion people who have abortions anyway
TIL cows, pigs, chickens, et al aren’t sapient
:the-more-you-know:
They aren't, though. Sapient just means human
Seems like a pretty bad standard for who deserves not to be tortured and murdered
Alright, I’ll take your point if we’re going by the literal definition of sapient, i.e wise or pertaining to humanity. But consciousness among animals is well observed at this point, and I don’t think my slight semantic misstep negates that fact.
sentience and sapience aren't the same thing and i will never forgive SF writers for conflating the two.
yeah idealism has been doing great at predicting outcomes so far :so-true:
I mean this is literally how we made supporting trans rights mandatory in leftist spaces. With a little effort we can make leftism synonymous with veganism.
Trans rights effect people you organize with.
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
Vaush: this is why it's okay for me, an individual, to buy slaves
slavery and animal consumption are not moral equivalents
Who cares if they're equivalent. Stop hurting animals and stop arguing that it's okay to harm them
perhaps not, but watch dominion (cw: unbelievably graphic violence) and tell me thats not an unspeakable moral atrocity
you may think you know but you have to see it to understand
Actually fuck this, animals are slaves. They're literally fucking chattel forced to do labor for us. They're separated from their familles, their cultures are disrupted and destroyed, they resist their bondage but are beaten and broken into submission. Go ahead and lick the boots of slaver owners, but don't pretend that nonhumans aren't slaves in material reality.
disengage
You're making up a thing no one said
Disagree
mod log:
meanwhile I get banned for: complaining about someone wishing death on me not getting banned
lmao okay :yes-honey-left:
Carnists be like "actually there is zero difference between good things and bad things. None at all. I am very smart"
Carnist just makes me want tacos.
Kit y eat the popcorn
Wait can cats even have popcorn ohgod ohfuck
cat my mum had fuckin loved pringles. Would hoover them up. I'm sure the one eating popcorn will be fine
deleted by creator