Like, we all know each other and have an ACTUAL COMMUNITY. Of course we do.
These liberals see each other as nothing, remember nobody, and build no unique culture of their own. They have no relationships with each other. They don't get it. We actually like each other. I care about people here you liberal losers.
You need to understand that we've all been here 3 years already, we know each other, care about each other, have a real community with a real unique culture forged through bonds and laughs and drama and dumb shit. We have an actual community, not just a bunch of people that don't know each other who press updoot and downdoot and generally just see one another as faceless individuals. We trust each other and genuinely like each other.
I genuinely hope that you can create something like it and come to care about the other posters around you in time. You should try to. Build something more meaningful than a reddit clone where everyone treats everyone like a bunch of faceless anons, build a real community.
Maybe both Reddit and the rest of Lemmy are echo chambers of anti-China voices too, but believe it or not, there actually are a few users that are pro-China on there, unlike on hexbear.net where there are no anti-China voices at all. It's pretty obvious which platform is more of an echo chamber.
someone hasnt seen our weekly China struggle sessions
We only look monolithic to libs from outside because we close ranks against bullshit Western lies and propaganda. But there is ample disagreement here about China and many other topics, and we have it out with each other fairly frequently on the many topics we disagree on. We've come to refer to these arguments with one another as "struggle sessions."
For example, it's worth noting that we have anarchists here (among other non-Marxist-Leninist tendencies), who are often fairly critical of China when they have a chance to be, without annoying libs getting in the way of the discussion.
I realize you very much have a dog in the China-Taiwan fight, as it were, and I understand your reluctance to support the other side. But, while your island's history is not littered with as many atrocities as that of my own nation (the US), you really ought to consider, as I and the many Westerners here have, that your country is not on the right side, and is in fact the bad guys. Chiang Kai-Shek was a monster, and any reasonable person should want to piss on his grave. The most effective way to do that would be to work toward reunification, the one thing he opposed more clearly than anything else.
The government of Taiwan is allied with a genocidal evil empire (the US), and is capitalist, so that's a non-starter because capitalism is destroying the planet.
And Western bourgeois "democracy" is nothing of the sort; the government of China is much more responsive to its people than the US or any other supposed "democracy." (Hint: if the system always gives rich people what they want, it's not democracy, it's what we communists call a Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie.)
These are not points anyone here will concede, because your views on these issues are entirely clouded by Western lies and propaganda, unfortunately.
(Keep in mind that Chinese people do vote on their local government officials; those officials then vote on the officials one level up, and so on, all the way up the hierarchy. This is in fact fairly similar to the original form of government in the United States, in which Senators and presidential Electors were selected by the members of each state's legislature.)
federation is kind of the new thing and being mean to libs is flavor of the week at the moment. people will get bored of it after a bit and we'll go back to our normal posting.
Tbf this is a very unusual time in the websites history due to the federation, and sorting by hot or new or, uh, "all time - month" will look very different.
It's also just false that there are no anti-china people. For example, we have a weird Khrushchevite who says that he and only he is the one good head of state to hold office at any point from 1950 to now.
You can also find plenty of people who have criticisms of China (myself still included) but just hate the bullshit western articles that get shared on lemmy.ml or whatever. Between
a group where 98% of relevant users are vehemently anti-china and 2% are for, but there is a profound consensus among the 98% that mediabiasfactcheck.org is a good website and the BBC is objective in its coverage of China as it puts out absolute pablum articles against it
Vs 2) a group where (let's just say) 100% of the user base at least supports China over America but they are able to have real discussions about journalistic epistemology and media bias that doesn't equate "unbiased" with "bipartisan".
I think 2 is a lot less of an echo chamber because the presence of people with absolutely moronic and uncritical responses to media are not a substantial indicator of something succeeding in not being an echo chamber. Consensus within a finite population is a real social phenomenon and the vast majority of people can be reasoned with over time.
Edit: "but you just like your own media!"
Look at what we actually talk about. There is some use of Chinese or sometimes Russian press for reference, but the focus is overwhelmingly still on western sources because you can find a lot of useful information even in spite of the author's intentions much of the time, and no one is using some Chinese NGO as a fucking measuring stick for what source is objective and what isn't (and Russian media is automatically criticized, but that is an aside).
Ngl, right now the lib dunking is the like, idk, thing we've been doing now that hexbear has been released onto Lemmy. Personally I haven't really been doing much of that myself except for dunking on some I saw being homophobic in someone's replies.
But yeah in general we're not as like universally pro China as we seem from the outside, ngl I'm like more hesitant to be all in for China than some of the other users on this site, it's just that when it comes to arguing with libs we don't split from the general hexbear line
But yeah there is a strong sense of community on hexbear, these people helped me understand and come to terms with being trans, the OP of this thread is actually mutuals with me on mastodon and in discord DMs with me and we're in a discord for trans communists together. She's given me a lot of really helpful advice and explained a lot of theory to me, and she (and several other hexbears who follow me on fedi) helped me get past my alcoholism. Like I've also seen some of the users here manage to crowdfund to avoid homelessness, get hrt, money for food when they can't work due to an injury, get medical necessities they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford and the like
Liberals actually went along with Fukuyama's "you will pay for your identity markers and you will like it" smugposting. It's probably a part of why they tend to have walls of Funko Pops and need to tell you about the specific craft beer they sip while writing editorials.
they tend to have walls of Funko Pops and need to tell you about the specific craft beer they sip while writing editorials.
I hate how this isn't even a contrived stereotype anymore. Have literally met these types and it's all they have to justify their "everyone's experience is unique!" slogans
you see, consumption is actually identity. the more you consume, the more idententer you are. self-actualization means boxing yourself within the narrow confines of what brands want to sell to you. why yes, I am very smart.
self-actualization means boxing yourself within the narrow confines of what brands want to sell to you
If you put on the glasses, that's directly the message of contemporary advertisements. "Buy brand! Brand is superior to competing brand! Look at this fizzy cleaning animation!" tactics are long gone. Brands are now purchased identities and lifestyle signifiers and that's much worse.
From what I've seen, there's no real difference between lemmy.ml, lemm.ee, and lemmy.world. They're all the same attempt at trying to be a Reddit clone with the same Reddit defaults as comms. If you merge all three instances together and merge the comms that they share, they would be absolutely zero difference. I guess lemmy.ml is lemm.ee with socialist characteristics while lemmy.world is lemm.ee with fascist characteristics. To me, the biggest difference between those instances is how they see us and whether they are federated with us.
Lemmy.ml has moderation that's closer to the moderation here but without kicking people out for being libs. Hate is well moderated.
Lemm.ee is the closest to emulating reddit while remaining a real form of politically neutral. Hate is well moderated.
lemmy.world is emulating reddit, including its censorship of the left. Hate is badly moderated. Reports of actual transphobia go ignored.
Your "characteristics" assessment isn't really that far off though. I am an advocate of lemm.ee and would prefer for it to become the largest. Lemmy.ml will become leftist in the longterm in my opinion, Hexbear influence is now very significant on it.
It's just a lot of thoughts going through my head since federation. I feel like there's going to be one Reddit clone that will absorb members from all the other would-be clones. Most people will choose the largest Reddit clone by default, which will snowball until there's only one clone left. Right now, the favored Reddit clone is lemmy.world, but the admins are apparently paranoid about us creating wrecker alts to ruin their shitty instance, so that could be a source of instability. I agree about lemmy.ml. For lemm.me, I've noticed a lot of banned users come from that instance and it feels like we get the most pushback from them. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually defederate from us, at which point lemmy.world would just completely absorb lemm.me's users. From the perspective of an incredulous lib who doesn't understand fascism even when it's biting them in the ass, the only difference between lemm.me and lemmy.world is one instance federates with Hexbear while the other one doesn't and once the instance that federates with Hexbear no longer does so, lemm.me just becomes a smaller lemmy.world. I dunno, it's just a thought I have.
As an aside, here's an interesting thread in beehaw about whether they should just defederate. I think most people have predicted beehaw would eventually wither away, but I didn't expect the process to happen this fast. It's also very interesting how even the libs at beehaw recognize some of the flaws of Reddit (they've taken out downvotes like us for largely the same reasons). They at least understand that trying to recreate Reddit when Reddit already exists is a terrible idea. However, being libs, they are hampered by having a terrible intellectual framework. They also have a huge civility fetish such as some loser in that same thread shamelessly admitting they would deal with a transphobe than some angry person.
lol they're down to 290 users/day. Their decision to defederate so much has fucked them.
Hexbear has very low user churn so we get away with low growth sources to maintain community health. They on the other hand have very high user churn due to users having no political motive for being there.
On Lemmy as an independent instance you need to solve this or you die.
For lemm.me, I've noticed a lot of banned users come from that instance and it feels like we get the most pushback from them. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually defederate from us
My experience with the instance owner has been good. They are committed to neutrality while maintaining strong hate moderation. I don't think they will defed, particularly if they see us as people promoting them because we prefer them to lemmyworld being dominant, but I've been wrong before.
How "gated" is that community? As in: How hard would it be to grow into that community? If I migrated to hexbear, would I be treated with suspicion as an outsider, with wary indifference, or welcomed immediately?
The arguments and descriptors I see here are appealing, but I've just recently started using Lemmy and I've got this lingering sense of not belonging here (yet), hence ny insecurity.
We love new users! Like the other reply says, there are some things we won't bend on, but below that there are a lot of differing opinions. Come hang out with us for a while, comment on some posts, and see how it feels.
Ngl the quickest way to properly become part of the hexbear community in order of like, level of commitment required is probably to join, do like an intro post or something in c/chapotraphouse, maybe join the unofficial hexbear mastodon instance (toots.matapacos.dog) and maybe also like trans your gender or something
So long as you follow the Hexbear party line you'll be welcomed with open arms. All you have to do is be on the far left, don't be sectarian, oppose the US and its propaganda, and love your trans comrades.
Uh... but you did just mention the thing you're telling me not to mention.
I prefer indoor cats anyway.
With "don't be sectarian" I'm guessing you mean "don't start fights over the specific flavour of lefty"? By some definition, willingness to bash the fash would also be considered sectarian, hence the question.
bashing the fash is table stakes. we ban anything even tangentially pro-fash. don't be sectarian refers to useless inter-leftist infighting, which we don't allow.
the outdoor cats thing is a joke about the very first argument on the website that escalated into a full-blown struggle session (whether vegans stop being vegans if they own outdoor cats - I can't even pretend to understand the argument).
bashing the fash is table stakes. we ban anything even tangentially pro-fash.
Good.
don't be sectarian refers to useless inter-leftist infighting, which we don't allow.
Good
the outdoor cats thing is a joke about the very first argument on the website that escalated into a full-blown struggle session (whether vegans stop being vegans if they own outdoor cats - I can't even pretend to understand the argument).
Uh... I think I can, but I'm scared to check the logic. Might fry a circuit or three.
Like, we all know each other and have an ACTUAL COMMUNITY. Of course we do.
These liberals see each other as nothing, remember nobody, and build no unique culture of their own. They have no relationships with each other. They don't get it. We actually like each other. I care about people here you liberal losers.
@randint@lemm.ee I want you to read this.
You need to understand that we've all been here 3 years already, we know each other, care about each other, have a real community with a real unique culture forged through bonds and laughs and drama and dumb shit. We have an actual community, not just a bunch of people that don't know each other who press updoot and downdoot and generally just see one another as faceless individuals. We trust each other and genuinely like each other.
I genuinely hope that you can create something like it and come to care about the other posters around you in time. You should try to. Build something more meaningful than a reddit clone where everyone treats everyone like a bunch of faceless anons, build a real community.
I love you all
lol they chose instead to post this comment to someone who was arguing with me. I'm honored tbh
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someone hasnt seen our weekly China struggle sessions
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We only look monolithic to libs from outside because we close ranks against bullshit Western lies and propaganda. But there is ample disagreement here about China and many other topics, and we have it out with each other fairly frequently on the many topics we disagree on. We've come to refer to these arguments with one another as "struggle sessions."
For example, it's worth noting that we have anarchists here (among other non-Marxist-Leninist tendencies), who are often fairly critical of China when they have a chance to be, without annoying libs getting in the way of the discussion.
I realize you very much have a dog in the China-Taiwan fight, as it were, and I understand your reluctance to support the other side. But, while your island's history is not littered with as many atrocities as that of my own nation (the US), you really ought to consider, as I and the many Westerners here have, that your country is not on the right side, and is in fact the bad guys. Chiang Kai-Shek was a monster, and any reasonable person should want to piss on his grave. The most effective way to do that would be to work toward reunification, the one thing he opposed more clearly than anything else.
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The government of Taiwan is allied with a genocidal evil empire (the US), and is capitalist, so that's a non-starter because capitalism is destroying the planet.
And Western bourgeois "democracy" is nothing of the sort; the government of China is much more responsive to its people than the US or any other supposed "democracy." (Hint: if the system always gives rich people what they want, it's not democracy, it's what we communists call a Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie.)
These are not points anyone here will concede, because your views on these issues are entirely clouded by Western lies and propaganda, unfortunately.
(Keep in mind that Chinese people do vote on their local government officials; those officials then vote on the officials one level up, and so on, all the way up the hierarchy. This is in fact fairly similar to the original form of government in the United States, in which Senators and presidential Electors were selected by the members of each state's legislature.)
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If Taipei has changed a lot then why are there statues being unveiled lately celebrating fascist collaborators with the Japanese invaders?
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It's more of a community centered around catharsis and commiseration, and occasionally changing people's minds who are open to it, but go off
Edit: oh yeah and comradeliness ofc
federation is kind of the new thing and being mean to libs is flavor of the week at the moment. people will get bored of it after a bit and we'll go back to our normal posting.
不知道你在这种语境撤这些有的没得民众感情道德绑架理念是几分意思
又没人提倡武合，大家反对的是丑国名面上打着自由民主的旗暗地里进行借刀杀人的参与和干扰东亚地区地缘政治的伪君子行为。湾湾就是美帝独裁梦的弃子，不要说两岸了，这点连这论坛上的老外都很清楚，何必在这装惨诉苦呢
殖人眼里应该只要不是资的本走狗就是粉红吧
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没有调查就没有发言权，起点如此不同会让沟通很积累，更何况你的口气也没谦虚到哪去。这也就是为什么另一半人不愿意和你正常交流，属于你这意识形态的人外网上真的多到已经懒得理了。我劝你还是去了解了解美帝进百年的政治历史吧，或许你会有所收获。要推荐的话可以在贴里问
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Tbf this is a very unusual time in the websites history due to the federation, and sorting by hot or new or, uh, "all time - month" will look very different.
It's also just false that there are no anti-china people. For example, we have a weird Khrushchevite who says that he and only he is the one good head of state to hold office at any point from 1950 to now.
You can also find plenty of people who have criticisms of China (myself still included) but just hate the bullshit western articles that get shared on lemmy.ml or whatever. Between
Vs 2) a group where (let's just say) 100% of the user base at least supports China over America but they are able to have real discussions about journalistic epistemology and media bias that doesn't equate "unbiased" with "bipartisan".
I think 2 is a lot less of an echo chamber because the presence of people with absolutely moronic and uncritical responses to media are not a substantial indicator of something succeeding in not being an echo chamber. Consensus within a finite population is a real social phenomenon and the vast majority of people can be reasoned with over time.
Edit: "but you just like your own media!"
Look at what we actually talk about. There is some use of Chinese or sometimes Russian press for reference, but the focus is overwhelmingly still on western sources because you can find a lot of useful information even in spite of the author's intentions much of the time, and no one is using some Chinese NGO as a fucking measuring stick for what source is objective and what isn't (and Russian media is automatically criticized, but that is an aside).
Ngl, right now the lib dunking is the like, idk, thing we've been doing now that hexbear has been released onto Lemmy. Personally I haven't really been doing much of that myself except for dunking on some I saw being homophobic in someone's replies.
But yeah in general we're not as like universally pro China as we seem from the outside, ngl I'm like more hesitant to be all in for China than some of the other users on this site, it's just that when it comes to arguing with libs we don't split from the general hexbear line
But yeah there is a strong sense of community on hexbear, these people helped me understand and come to terms with being trans, the OP of this thread is actually mutuals with me on mastodon and in discord DMs with me and we're in a discord for trans communists together. She's given me a lot of really helpful advice and explained a lot of theory to me, and she (and several other hexbears who follow me on fedi) helped me get past my alcoholism. Like I've also seen some of the users here manage to crowdfund to avoid homelessness, get hrt, money for food when they can't work due to an injury, get medical necessities they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford and the like
TL;DR: we have a real sense of community on
Liberals actually went along with Fukuyama's "you will pay for your identity markers and you will like it" smugposting. It's probably a part of why they tend to have walls of Funko Pops and need to tell you about the specific craft beer they sip while writing editorials.
I hate how this isn't even a contrived stereotype anymore. Have literally met these types and it's all they have to justify their "everyone's experience is unique!" slogans
There are a staggering number of combinations of identity markers you can pay for! It's like the NFTs of the offline world!
you see, consumption is actually identity. the more you consume, the more idententer you are. self-actualization means boxing yourself within the narrow confines of what brands want to sell to you. why yes, I am very smart.
If you put on the glasses, that's directly the message of contemporary advertisements. "Buy brand! Brand is superior to competing brand! Look at this fizzy cleaning animation!" tactics are long gone. Brands are now purchased identities and lifestyle signifiers and that's much worse.
From what I've seen, there's no real difference between lemmy.ml, lemm.ee, and lemmy.world. They're all the same attempt at trying to be a Reddit clone with the same Reddit defaults as comms. If you merge all three instances together and merge the comms that they share, they would be absolutely zero difference. I guess lemmy.ml is lemm.ee with socialist characteristics while lemmy.world is lemm.ee with fascist characteristics. To me, the biggest difference between those instances is how they see us and whether they are federated with us.
There are definite differences.
Lemmy.ml has moderation that's closer to the moderation here but without kicking people out for being libs. Hate is well moderated.
Lemm.ee is the closest to emulating reddit while remaining a real form of politically neutral. Hate is well moderated.
lemmy.world is emulating reddit, including its censorship of the left. Hate is badly moderated. Reports of actual transphobia go ignored.
Your "characteristics" assessment isn't really that far off though. I am an advocate of lemm.ee and would prefer for it to become the largest. Lemmy.ml will become leftist in the longterm in my opinion, Hexbear influence is now very significant on it.
It's just a lot of thoughts going through my head since federation. I feel like there's going to be one Reddit clone that will absorb members from all the other would-be clones. Most people will choose the largest Reddit clone by default, which will snowball until there's only one clone left. Right now, the favored Reddit clone is lemmy.world, but the admins are apparently paranoid about us creating wrecker alts to ruin their shitty instance, so that could be a source of instability. I agree about lemmy.ml. For lemm.me, I've noticed a lot of banned users come from that instance and it feels like we get the most pushback from them. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually defederate from us, at which point lemmy.world would just completely absorb lemm.me's users. From the perspective of an incredulous lib who doesn't understand fascism even when it's biting them in the ass, the only difference between lemm.me and lemmy.world is one instance federates with Hexbear while the other one doesn't and once the instance that federates with Hexbear no longer does so, lemm.me just becomes a smaller lemmy.world. I dunno, it's just a thought I have.
As an aside, here's an interesting thread in beehaw about whether they should just defederate. I think most people have predicted beehaw would eventually wither away, but I didn't expect the process to happen this fast. It's also very interesting how even the libs at beehaw recognize some of the flaws of Reddit (they've taken out downvotes like us for largely the same reasons). They at least understand that trying to recreate Reddit when Reddit already exists is a terrible idea. However, being libs, they are hampered by having a terrible intellectual framework. They also have a huge civility fetish such as some loser in that same thread shamelessly admitting they would deal with a transphobe than some angry person.
lol they're down to 290 users/day. Their decision to defederate so much has fucked them.
Hexbear has very low user churn so we get away with low growth sources to maintain community health. They on the other hand have very high user churn due to users having no political motive for being there.
On Lemmy as an independent instance you need to solve this or you die.
My experience with the instance owner has been good. They are committed to neutrality while maintaining strong hate moderation. I don't think they will defed, particularly if they see us as people promoting them because we prefer them to lemmyworld being dominant, but I've been wrong before.
How "gated" is that community? As in: How hard would it be to grow into that community? If I migrated to hexbear, would I be treated with suspicion as an outsider, with wary indifference, or welcomed immediately?
The arguments and descriptors I see here are appealing, but I've just recently started using Lemmy and I've got this lingering sense of not belonging here (yet), hence ny insecurity.
We love new users! Like the other reply says, there are some things we won't bend on, but below that there are a lot of differing opinions. Come hang out with us for a while, comment on some posts, and see how it feels.
Ngl the quickest way to properly become part of the hexbear community in order of like, level of commitment required is probably to join, do like an intro post or something in c/chapotraphouse, maybe join the unofficial hexbear mastodon instance (toots.matapacos.dog) and maybe also like trans your gender or something
Also post and comment stuff ofc <3
Do I have to trans my gender? Can't I just, like, not have one at all? I'd hate to lug something around I don't need anyway.
Also, what the hell is that instance name?
Thanks for the pointers though!
Yeah being agender is cool too <3 the trans thing was only a joke really because so many of us are queer
And the instance is named after a south American dog that used to go around biting cops at protest lol
Oh I figured, I just wanted to make a joke of my own at the expense of gender :D
Huh, I wonder why. Did they smell of pork? ;-)
So long as you follow the Hexbear party line you'll be welcomed with open arms. All you have to do is be on the far left, don't be sectarian, oppose the US and its propaganda, and love your trans comrades.
Oh, and don't mention outdoor cats.
Uh... but you did just mention the thing you're telling me not to mention.
I prefer indoor cats anyway.
With "don't be sectarian" I'm guessing you mean "don't start fights over the specific flavour of lefty"? By some definition, willingness to bash the fash would also be considered sectarian, hence the question.
bashing the fash is table stakes. we ban anything even tangentially pro-fash. don't be sectarian refers to useless inter-leftist infighting, which we don't allow.
the outdoor cats thing is a joke about the very first argument on the website that escalated into a full-blown struggle session (whether vegans stop being vegans if they own outdoor cats - I can't even pretend to understand the argument).
Good.
Good
Uh... I think I can, but I'm scared to check the logic. Might fry a circuit or three.
welcome home
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