I think suicide protests are okay as long as they're not murdering innocents. Self-immolation has been a way for the unheard to cry out to those who won't listen for millennia. It lays bare the contradictions of empire.
Hard to call this "suicide attack" when nobody else was hurt.
A coworker of mine said Bushnell didn't respond to commands from the cops, which is inherently harmful, he said. The pigs were shouting "ON THE GROUND" to a person on fire and burning to death
Holy shit I'm dying. That's the most brainworms take I've ever seen. Even if you're fucking burning to death you have to obey the cops or it's "harmful".
On a little more serious note, some people actually have no critical thinking skills and it makes me deeply sad.
As far as I'm concerned, the best courses of action for US Military members in order are 1) commit treason (godspeed) 2) quit the military and use their social status as former military to advocate against imperialism and 3) exactly what this guy did. There are probably other options, too.
This article has a list of famous self-immolations. Some of them were quite effective. I will concede that there are many more fruitless self immolations that didn't make this list, however. https://time.com/6835364/self-immolation-history-israel-hamas-war/
if i were the cia id be spamming the airwaves with how great self immolation is so all the leftists would kill themselves
all of these instances of 'self immolation helping' had material circumstances that were already volatile. the idea that the immolation itself did anything is absurd, and all youre doing is encouraging vulnerable people to kill themselves
It won't do anything significant to change politics on Gaza, but it will magically convince a significant percentage of leftists to follow suit? Doubt.
Hopefully no one follows through, a lot of western leftists have guilt about what their country is doing pure evil, Aaron being treated like a martyr might inspire people to follow his way, and the last thing I'd want as a global southerner is less leftists. And it's not like his case made that much of an impact, we're already seeing liberals calling him mentally ill and radical while western media hides his intents, only people who's his act meant anything to were already pro Palestine
They don't always cause a chain reaction. I'd have to read a study to find out the exact percentages.
Regardless, what you said above is unproveable. There is no contrafactual situation in which the Thích Quảng Đức self immolation in Saigon didn't happen. You cannot say with certainty it had no effect. And that's just the direct effects.
The knock-on effects of people questioning the US empire after that image of the monk on fire became widespread are impossible to calculate.
the fact that you cannot measure the effect and that the ultimate price is someones life makes it completely not worth it. honestly, i find you completely reprehensible and disgusting for continuing to defend this, im done here
you are 120% right, it seems that every now and then a western academic type who fucking loves science posts something weird, then gives everyone a headache by defending it using all the techniques of debate, obfuscation and deflection taught by higher education
like imagine how detached from reality a person has to be to double down on "AKSHUALLY ITS 'OKAY' THAT A HUMAN BEING HAD TO END THEIR FUCKING PRECIOUS LIFE ON THIS SHITHOLE CAPITALIST EARTH IN THE MOST PAINFUL WAY POSSIBLE AS A DESPERATE PLEA FOR AMERICA AND ISRAEL TO STOP DOING GENOCIDE!"
none of this is "okay", if we make it so, then we are throwing trash on the grave of Aaron Bushnell
*edited to prevent misunderstanding of intelligence agencies
How is it not? They are arguing that suicide is useful for political ends, particularly in the case of self immolation. The logical conclusion is that more people should do it
The context for this one is right though? Not all self immolations are worthwhile endeavors, but this one has the chance to maybe do some good is what I’m getting from this conversation. The guy was faced with an impossible choice because he was being forced to go assist the Israelis from what I understand. And since he was part of some kind of intelligence unit in the Air Force he would have been complicit in acquiring the targeting data for Israeli bombers had he gone. I don’t know what happens if you just tell the government you don’t want to go, I would assume some kind of court marshal or something. So instead of being silenced in some kind of military prison he decided to take his own life in support of the people he was ordered to kill. Will it change anything? I have no idea this is the most coverage I’ve ever seen of a self immolation in my lifetime, but it doesn’t really seem like the other person is saying everyone should emulate the act or anything.
Depends. This guy in particular is probably the most perfect candidate for the act and he’s received the most media attention out of anyone who’s done it in the past idk 10 years or so. Maybe something might come of it or maybe not.
I think suicide protests are okay as long as they're not murdering innocents. Self-immolation has been a way for the unheard to cry out to those who won't listen for millennia. It lays bare the contradictions of empire.
Hard to call this "suicide attack" when nobody else was hurt.
Or more to the point, he didn't even try to hurt anyone else, and there's indisputable video evidence proving it.
A coworker of mine said Bushnell didn't respond to commands from the cops, which is inherently harmful, he said. The pigs were shouting "ON THE GROUND" to a person on fire and burning to death
Not obeying a cop is more dangerous than a cop pointing a gun at you I guess.
That's a dogshit opinion holy shit
This coworker also once said America needs South Africa style apartheid
Holy shit I'm dying. That's the most brainworms take I've ever seen. Even if you're fucking burning to death you have to obey the cops or it's "harmful".
On a little more serious note, some people actually have no critical thinking skills and it makes me deeply sad.
your coworker sounds like somebody prone to accidents
the piece of fucking shit cop was yelling him to get to the ground while he was already ON the ground, barely clinging to life
I don't think suicide protests are ok because they're useless
There is no way of knowing that.
As far as I'm concerned, the best courses of action for US Military members in order are 1) commit treason (godspeed) 2) quit the military and use their social status as former military to advocate against imperialism and 3) exactly what this guy did. There are probably other options, too.
This article has a list of famous self-immolations. Some of them were quite effective. I will concede that there are many more fruitless self immolations that didn't make this list, however. https://time.com/6835364/self-immolation-history-israel-hamas-war/
if i were the cia id be spamming the airwaves with how great self immolation is so all the leftists would kill themselves
all of these instances of 'self immolation helping' had material circumstances that were already volatile. the idea that the immolation itself did anything is absurd, and all youre doing is encouraging vulnerable people to kill themselves
It won't do anything significant to change politics on Gaza, but it will magically convince a significant percentage of leftists to follow suit? Doubt.
its well known that suicides cause chain reactions of suicides, especially among vulnerable people
People over here are too shocked to notice that, they don't want to believe the guy that set himself on fire died in vain
yep. just wishful thinking, and a wasted life.
Hopefully no one follows through, a lot of western leftists have guilt about what their country is doing pure evil, Aaron being treated like a martyr might inspire people to follow his way, and the last thing I'd want as a global southerner is less leftists. And it's not like his case made that much of an impact, we're already seeing liberals calling him mentally ill and radical while western media hides his intents, only people who's his act meant anything to were already pro Palestine
They don't always cause a chain reaction. I'd have to read a study to find out the exact percentages.
Regardless, what you said above is unproveable. There is no contrafactual situation in which the Thích Quảng Đức self immolation in Saigon didn't happen. You cannot say with certainty it had no effect. And that's just the direct effects.
The knock-on effects of people questioning the US empire after that image of the monk on fire became widespread are impossible to calculate.
the fact that you cannot measure the effect and that the ultimate price is someones life makes it completely not worth it. honestly, i find you completely reprehensible and disgusting for continuing to defend this, im done here
you are 120% right, it seems that every now and then a western academic type who fucking loves science posts something weird, then gives everyone a headache by defending it using all the techniques of debate, obfuscation and deflection taught by higher education
like imagine how detached from reality a person has to be to double down on "AKSHUALLY ITS 'OKAY' THAT A HUMAN BEING HAD TO END THEIR FUCKING PRECIOUS LIFE ON THIS SHITHOLE CAPITALIST EARTH IN THE MOST PAINFUL WAY POSSIBLE AS A DESPERATE PLEA FOR AMERICA AND ISRAEL TO STOP DOING GENOCIDE!"
none of this is "okay", if we make it so, then we are throwing trash on the grave of Aaron Bushnell
*edited to prevent misunderstanding of intelligence agencies
That’s a little out of hand I think.
How is it not? They are arguing that suicide is useful for political ends, particularly in the case of self immolation. The logical conclusion is that more people should do it
But they didn’t.
They're arguing that this one is good and the context is right, though. That means the context can be right in the future
The context for this one is right though? Not all self immolations are worthwhile endeavors, but this one has the chance to maybe do some good is what I’m getting from this conversation. The guy was faced with an impossible choice because he was being forced to go assist the Israelis from what I understand. And since he was part of some kind of intelligence unit in the Air Force he would have been complicit in acquiring the targeting data for Israeli bombers had he gone. I don’t know what happens if you just tell the government you don’t want to go, I would assume some kind of court marshal or something. So instead of being silenced in some kind of military prison he decided to take his own life in support of the people he was ordered to kill. Will it change anything? I have no idea this is the most coverage I’ve ever seen of a self immolation in my lifetime, but it doesn’t really seem like the other person is saying everyone should emulate the act or anything.
Depends. This guy in particular is probably the most perfect candidate for the act and he’s received the most media attention out of anyone who’s done it in the past idk 10 years or so. Maybe something might come of it or maybe not.