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I dunno if Natalie ever "presented" as anything more than she is. I think she was just one of a small group of leftish youtubers who got big at a time when the platform seemed to be completely overrun by alt-right dorks and a part of her audience projected revolutionary leftism onto her that wasn't there.
She had some problematic elder queers on her videos. When asked to denounce problematic things they has said she did not. she said it is just elder queer culture to be problematic and doubbled down. Problematic but also maybe correct.
his stuff is actively malicious, though. he's working to restore stronger gatekeeping between trans people and medical care, using his platform to do that. giving him access to your platform without looking up who he is isn't a minor foux pas - it's dangerous. this kind of minimization is why people are upset with her. it's like inviting blaire white onto your show, not some doddering old man. these people actively work with terfs and far right groups as "the good trans".
it's not a generational divide. there's plenty of young transmedicalists. it's a conservative position that posits that if we cut out all the "weird" trans people, we can gain the acceptance of the cissies because good "optics" or whatever (I've actually had this conversation in a phone call with a staunch transmedicalist that's very much a zoomer).
the reality is that queer assimilationists endanger all of us. their position forces them into alliance with far-right groups (see my earlier comments about TERFs and fascists).
this disagreement has nothing to do with a generational divide. I love elder trans people and learning about how they survived prior to the 2011 change to the laws that enabled informed consent. their experiences are vital. what I will not tolerate are people who deny the existence of my dearest NB friends, on a fool's errand to gain acceptance from a hostile cis society.
For this crowd the real turning point against her was when she dialled up the anticommunism with caricatures and strawmen while trying to shame people into voting for democrats. People were semi supportive before that.
I find that hegemonic/rancid takes about veganism are a pretty good flag for other bad politics. It's South Park behavior. Especially because shitting on tofu like contra did denigrates East Asian cultures as collateral damage
it's not an odd texture! These are culturally relative. Know what's an odd texture? Bread. It's a damp sponge, isn't that odd? But of course if you grew up eating bread it's not odd at all, I love a good sourdough
it's not hard to prepare correctly! Maybe from your cultural background it is. If you grew up cooking tofu, you'd (a) know how to prepare it (b) have different desired tastes for how to cook it. A good number of people will put "raw" tofu in sushi. Tastes fine but you wouldn't like it. I will happily eat a seared thin-sliced slab with some bbq sauce while camping, how is that any tougher to prepare than a steak or pork chop?
It's fine to have a personal preference. If you try and extend these globally and say that your culture is right about how tofu tastes and those people are either wrong or lying, yeah that's racist. That's why she deleted
lots of people dislike tofu because it's hard to prepare correctly
no they don't because no it isn't? it's frankly simple compared to handling meat. if you wanna make the argument that they don't like it because they're ignorant that's one thing, but claiming "tofu is hard" is kind of embarrassing unless you've literally never been taught even the basics of cooking.
I don't understand how someone can make it onto a niche communist forum without having the life experience to confirm that people will absolutely attack you for wanting things to be better
Democratic party political organizing depends on showing people how we can concretely improve our lives and how liberal democracy serves our collective interests. We need a mass movement in order to be effective by getting people to vote, so we bring in as many people as possible.
Marxist political organizing seems to rely on tactics that only work on a small percentage of the population and alienate everyone else. Maybe marxists should try a method that isn't sanctimoniousness and inventing words like "chud" and using "lib" as a derogatory.
Can you even hear yourself? You're so full of shit it's dribbling out of your bloody mouth and you're wholly oblivious to it. Get the fuck out of here with your liberal anti-vegan nonsense and go worship your cringe lib idol Contrapoints elsewhere.
You're basically just telling me how resentful and self-oblivious you are. Lots of ineffectual (self-proclaimed) Marxist activists can be characterized the same way, meanwhile vegans have done plenty of good agitation, probably the most visible being the documentaries on industrial slaughterhouses they've produced.
Saying that you personally do not like tofu is fine. Saying that tofu is impossible to prepare in a way that's good is racist.
You have misread me. It's South Park behavior. This type of worldview shits on people for caring; people who care are always the ones trying to change things; thus these attacks always attempt to preserve the current state of things. In other words, they are conservative. South Park didn't literally invent antiveganism, that would be so stupid that I think you should take a step back and remember that you're talking to a person and not a cartoon character.
You have misread me. I did not say that not being vegan makes you a "bad person", whatever that means. Going out of your way to defend the status quo of carnism usually means you have bad politics. Principled leftists have the good sense to stay quiet about it. Contra's particular flavor is to cede that veganism is ethically correct, to prevent both animal suffering and environmental destruction, but to claim that giving up meat is so impossibly difficult that anyone who's vegan must not have liked the taste very much to begin with. That's an obviously silly argument, and I hope she grows some spine and acts according to her stated values, but it doesn't excuse her thoughtless blabs denigrating East Asian cultures.
Why do people dislike contra so much outside of her being a lib?
Cause she also scolds those to her left for not being libs
She presented as father left than she actually was. She is comfortably a soc dem now.
Father Left is what we will replace Father Christmas with after we win the war on Christmas
I dunno if Natalie ever "presented" as anything more than she is. I think she was just one of a small group of leftish youtubers who got big at a time when the platform seemed to be completely overrun by alt-right dorks and a part of her audience projected revolutionary leftism onto her that wasn't there.
a clue is revealed in the comments of this very post
Is there a video or tweet she did that sparked it?
She had some problematic elder queers on her videos. When asked to denounce problematic things they has said she did not. she said it is just elder queer culture to be problematic and doubbled down. Problematic but also maybe correct.
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his stuff is actively malicious, though. he's working to restore stronger gatekeeping between trans people and medical care, using his platform to do that. giving him access to your platform without looking up who he is isn't a minor foux pas - it's dangerous. this kind of minimization is why people are upset with her. it's like inviting blaire white onto your show, not some doddering old man. these people actively work with terfs and far right groups as "the good trans".
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it's not a generational divide. there's plenty of young transmedicalists. it's a conservative position that posits that if we cut out all the "weird" trans people, we can gain the acceptance of the cissies because good "optics" or whatever (I've actually had this conversation in a phone call with a staunch transmedicalist that's very much a zoomer).
the reality is that queer assimilationists endanger all of us. their position forces them into alliance with far-right groups (see my earlier comments about TERFs and fascists).
this disagreement has nothing to do with a generational divide. I love elder trans people and learning about how they survived prior to the 2011 change to the laws that enabled informed consent. their experiences are vital. what I will not tolerate are people who deny the existence of my dearest NB friends, on a fool's errand to gain acceptance from a hostile cis society.
For this crowd the real turning point against her was when she dialled up the anticommunism with caricatures and strawmen while trying to shame people into voting for democrats. People were semi supportive before that.
Don’t forget that she made fun of fellow trans people she thought were weird at the same time!
because leftists are attached to their funny little youtube people when they could get outside
She said ignorant things about veganism
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I find that hegemonic/rancid takes about veganism are a pretty good flag for other bad politics. It's South Park behavior. Especially because shitting on tofu like contra did denigrates East Asian cultures as collateral damage
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And I have to address your concrete objections:
It's fine to have a personal preference. If you try and extend these globally and say that your culture is right about how tofu tastes and those people are either wrong or lying, yeah that's racist. That's why she deleted
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no they don't because no it isn't? it's frankly simple compared to handling meat. if you wanna make the argument that they don't like it because they're ignorant that's one thing, but claiming "tofu is hard" is kind of embarrassing unless you've literally never been taught even the basics of cooking.
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fair enough, that's my bad then. sorry for the hostility.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-gooder_derogation
It originated with people being unable to refute vegans
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I don't understand how someone can make it onto a niche communist forum without having the life experience to confirm that people will absolutely attack you for wanting things to be better
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Can you even hear yourself? You're so full of shit it's dribbling out of your bloody mouth and you're wholly oblivious to it. Get the fuck out of here with your liberal anti-vegan nonsense and go worship your cringe lib idol Contrapoints elsewhere.
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You're basically just telling me how resentful and self-oblivious you are. Lots of ineffectual (self-proclaimed) Marxist activists can be characterized the same way, meanwhile vegans have done plenty of good agitation, probably the most visible being the documentaries on industrial slaughterhouses they've produced.
Saying that you personally do not like tofu is fine. Saying that tofu is impossible to prepare in a way that's good is racist.
You have misread me. It's South Park behavior. This type of worldview shits on people for caring; people who care are always the ones trying to change things; thus these attacks always attempt to preserve the current state of things. In other words, they are conservative. South Park didn't literally invent antiveganism, that would be so stupid that I think you should take a step back and remember that you're talking to a person and not a cartoon character.
You have misread me. I did not say that not being vegan makes you a "bad person", whatever that means. Going out of your way to defend the status quo of carnism usually means you have bad politics. Principled leftists have the good sense to stay quiet about it. Contra's particular flavor is to cede that veganism is ethically correct, to prevent both animal suffering and environmental destruction, but to claim that giving up meat is so impossibly difficult that anyone who's vegan must not have liked the taste very much to begin with. That's an obviously silly argument, and I hope she grows some spine and acts according to her stated values, but it doesn't excuse her thoughtless blabs denigrating East Asian cultures.
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No YouTuber is ever going to move the needle on anything
Tf? Don't spread ideas ever then at all. Might as well stop writing comments now, it's not going to change anything
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You're talking about contra, so this is irrelevant
Lib , says stupid shit, youtube celebrities are bad
Doing a show with Hillary Clinton is pretty bad