- cross-posted to:
- genzedong
- cross-posted to:
- genzedong
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Reddit should just be regarded as another arm of the state department at this point.
Well, the mod arm of their admin team is allegedly headed up by a 'former' spook, so
edit: iirc, they also removed their 'canary' some years back (canary in this case referring to a clause in their disclosure statements noting that they had not been contacted by any federal agencies)
Canaries are useless afaik but I'm sure Reddit has been contacted.
If memory serves, a lot of the site tried to speculate that it was because of r/td, because this happened back in 2016 or 2017, and almost no one thought there could have been broader nets cast instead. You know, like how the PATRIOT act was only ever designed for terrorists and criminals, certainly not created using that as a convenient excuse to surveil every person of even vague interest in the country.
Yet you get leftists who tell you they don't care about privacy :agony:
It's the difference between plausible deniability and tacit admission.
At some point, someone decided they're rather just not make the claim for fear of it being flung back in their faces.
When the DemocraticSocialism sub is defending Bezos and posting Eisenhower quotes, you know it's time to move on
That's what happens when you start taking the CIA's money.
I'd be hard pressed to name a big internet company that's not dick deep in CIA funding.
I like when Matt started calling the media and NGOs paramilitaries
Years ago Reddit published a list of "most reddit addicted cities" and Eglin Airforce Base was #1.
This is honestly wild. I was young back then, and I know the Internet/social media was a completely different arena back then, but was there such systematic backlash to speaking out against the Iraq War back during post-9/11?
In the US, oh yeah, big time, if you were noteworthy. That's part of how the Dixie Chicks became irrelevant, they dared to even make a tepid statement about it.
Hell, during the very early stages, the French make a fuss about the US going into Iraq and the cafeteria in the US capitol building renamed french fries 'Freedom fries'. Various parts of the US went along with it.
The fervor was insane.
I've heard of the freedom fries thing before in passing but never of why it was changed... wow.
Yup. Forgot how crazy it went, but yes (forgot french toast was also renamed lmao).
It was a bit different since there was a lot of white western people who were very very against the war, especially outside of America. Also the internet was way different in 2003, there wasn't four big websites that literally everyone posts on so you didn't have boomers on Facebook, chuds on Reddit and whatever twitter is mixed in with everyone else on the same platforms, people had to find websites and forums for their specific interests, things were a lot more diffuse so people with different views would stick to their own communities more.
Yes but instead of being on a social network it was the chud-liberal alliance calling you an unamerican terrorist in meat space. 2003 didn't have these giant centralized forums.
Phil Donahue lost his job at MSNBC for vocally opposing the Iraq War. An internal memo at MSNBC revealed that they saw Donahue as a "difficult public face for NBC in a time of war".
According to Donahue:
They were terrified of the antiwar voice. And that is not an overstatement. Antiwar voices were not popular. And if you’re General Electric, you certainly don’t want an antiwar voice on a cable channel that you own; Donald Rumsfeld is your biggest customer.
It really is funny almost, when you look back on how—how the management was just frozen by the antiwar voice. We were scolds. We weren’t patriotic. American people disagreed with us. And we weren’t good for business.
Chris Hedges also lost his job at The New York Times for publicly denouncing the Iraq War after they formally reprimanded him. He was booed off a stage and had his microphone cut twice for delivering an antiwar speech.
All the protesting I did then was organized in person so honestly dont think so.
I think they deplatformed people pretty quickly for questioning the war. The Internet really wasn't comparable back then to make a comparison on a social media level, but MSM and mainstream politics would practically exile you if you had anything other than full-throated support iirc.
Bush II’s Press Secretary Ari Fleishcher explicitly stated that Americans “need to watch what they say.” It was so fucked up.
Holy hell. We've watched them invent a genocide right in front of our eyes and no amount of truth has managed to slow it one bit. Sobering.
Power of manufacturing consent. I don't think most regular people buy it, for what it's worth. Plugged in libs and chuds do, but just your average person if they've heard any of the allegations it's only a very lightly held belief - most people don't watch the news or care at all about what happens abroad because of how precarious their own lives are.
Almost anyone I bring it up to agrees how bad what China is doing is, I think you're underestimating the level of consent that's been manufactured.
People have been looking for a reason to actually hate China for a while.
Still haven't settled on whether Black Lives Matter, but by god we will unleash hell to save the... checks notes... ethnic minorities we were purging on the other side of the border not more than a few years ago.
ib4 “smh @ the mods trying to grow the site these new immigrants dont respekt our kultur”
Genzedong has become the reddit bogeyman that Chapo was with a tiny fraction of the userbase. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't make it over 50k
You'll never see that point brought up in a thread, funnily enough. Only when 'hong kong is being supressed'
So holocaust denial is valuable discussion but manufactured consent is where they draw the line?
You can be banned for anything or nothing. You can be banned for posting or for not posting. You can be banned for upvoting the wrong thing or for upvoting the right thing at the wrong time.
You can always create a new account or a new subreddit, but Reddit reserves the right to ban you for doing that, too.
This is the unlimited freedom of private free market social media.
yeah it was inevitable. who knew that giant social media corps can't be trusted to host leftist content
I thought the revolution was going to be tweeted. 😤 😤 😤
They were too good for this world.
We gonna send over a liferaft and try to grow our community? Or have we given up on that?
Nothing official is in the works but there are a couple people repping the site over there, I've noticed an uptick in new users as well.
I was agitating in Sino and GZD after Chapo got banned. Some of their moderators seemed worried then, and I think the sino comm here is actually run by people from sino.
We should definitely promote this place there though
Got shadowbanned because of it, not sure if it was sino or the admins that hit the link. Deleted to prevent people from walking into a honey pot.
they seem to hate anarchists or something like that
HKers routinely masqueraded as "anarchist" while rioting. So it would become a fig-leaf in any kind of conversation. "I'm not anti-China, I'm just anti-Government".
Either way we already have a c/genzedong
If it's the same 400 users, you can have as many subs as you want. It's still all the same content and discourse.
Ehm, does comrade mod team have some plan to deal with newcomers, if gzd gets banned?
We'll still be enforcing the same rules and maintaining the same culture.
Here's hoping this site doesn't have a reactionary stint like they did when we tried inviting vegans here.
I guess drawing a hard line between the community and the rest of the site for like two weeks would work to slowly incorporate them without launching sitewide struggle sessions.
But in retrospect officially onboarding communities with different culture/dynamics/etc than us just doesn’t really work.
This is reactionary af.
I wouldn't apply that statement anywhere else other than online communities. Maybe there is better wording? I dunno. But like, vcj is very "unapologetic vegan" (which is great) but doesn't mesh well with the more chill "all the left" community we have here.
But like, vcj is very “unapologetic vegan” (which is great) but doesn’t mesh well with the more chill “all the left” community we have here.
This community is anything but chill, particularly at the top of the org chart when the vcj folks were coming over.
Lots of very naked hostility towards anything resembling discourse. Lots of people screaming "STFU LIB!" unironically, for entirely vegan-related discourse. Just a lot of raw, reactionary mindset.
It seems like we've mellowed out significantly in the last few months. But I guess we'll see.
it can get heated during struggle sessions. But we're getting better at nipping those in the bud, and when we're not arguing it's really chill.
Lots of very naked hostility towards anything resembling discourse. Lots of people screaming “STFU LIB!” unironically, for entirely vegan-related discourse. Just a lot of raw, reactionary mindset.
I haven't seen any of this, please report it if you see more of it. This isn't tolerated.
Is it vegan to cherry pick philosophies from marginalized people and hide behind it to promote a narrow and individualistic view of an issue that ignores much of the nuance the aforementioned philosopher was trying to get across?
Because that was a lot of the problem
Lol It’s happened like four other times, so yeah, it probably will. Hopefully shit turns around, but no one should be surprised.
Honestly, the modlog suggests admins have been a lot better about separating the wheat from the chaffe.
Maybe this time will be different. :-p
Lol this site flips out anytime someone new tries to come here. The mods can have all the plans they want, it won’t do shit.
I got permabanned already from r/news, r/worldnews, and r/politics and a few others for no real reason beyond just arguing against mainstream narratives. Mods will just ban anyone they dont like on that shit site, it really does just enforce a hardline position they're taking on specific issues and anyone that they think steps out of line. Also got an admin warning once for saying "death to amerika" lol, im surprised honestly i havent been perma banned from reddit. Maybe its cause i have a "big" reddit account idk
Denying that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction is now a bannable offense by the reddit admins.
Also soon RIP to r/sino, r/communism and r/socialism. The last few decent subreddits on that trash site.
Save their sidebar contents now
I really feel homeless when it comes to this issue. On one hand reddit is pretending bodies are being stacked. On the other hand this place acts like China's official statements don't amount to a cultural genocide.
edit: enjoy the view of people cursing at me and my replies getting deleted. Great site you got here, mods.
Chinas official statements have always been that the struggle against extremism must not extend into racism or islamophobia and the claims of cultural genocide are very unclear and shaky as to what specifics they mean and what evidence exists, with some claims amounting to "China is forcing Uighurs to taint their bloodline with Han semen".
Yes they do what the fuck are you talking about, idk if you're referring to them switching primary language in education to mandarin or something but they absolutely speak their own language. Its on the fucking currency like holy shit.
https://web.archive.org/web/20181027024145/https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?src=11×tamp=1540608057&ver=1207&signature=fdRW-tFrJl9Uugfo2DCINfuUB3Qe4ddDKnFIlCwLAmk9wGuOsVODAJUKpJgkFFew7XfUw8uSYLKiNGSbhTZ5Pf5IgoRQpqpZmyfU66f8Y1UgwS6EMWokFb-Zc253Yq&new=1
5 seconds of googling and here's an official party statement telling people they're not patriotic if they speak their native language. Gee, I wonder what that portends.
Thanks, I loathe to trust google translate on this but theres nothing in this that is dissuading people from speaking or learning their native minority language, its exclusively discussing promoting Mandarin as a unifying national language and perfectly aligns with the statements about improving material conditions by doing shit like ensuring mandarin competency so situations like in the link where people cant understand manuals or other things doesnt occur.
It does not tell anyone that they are unpatriotic if they speak their own language or participate in their own culture, but tries to promote patriotism in learning the same language as the whole rest of China.
I frankly have some criticisms about the Chinese policies toward non-Mandarin languages, but I do understand why they promote Mandarin as the national. I feel like some of these comments come from Americans who aren't exactly used to the fact that a huge portion of the world regularly uses more than one language.
They aren't phasing out Uyghur at all, just promoting bi-lingualism...I guess ESL classes that are mandatory for immigrants in public school are cultural genocide now.
This is more or less what I'm saying, it's just that they have overstepped a bit in the past imo. Nothing for anyone to be up in arms about, it'd be something for the Chinese people to fight for themselves (which they did in Guangdong). The whole conversation is really idealism anyway, so who gives ya know?
ESL classes that are mandatory for immigrants in public school are cultural genocide now.
Making them mandatory isn't genocide, but it's certainly assinilationism and something that the American left had been criticizing for a long time.
I agree, but that's the territory we're in right now. This is a problem that is solved internally and there's no reason for people who aren't there to even think about it. No one's threatening sanctions against the US for ESL programs and most of the people criticizing China for "cultural genocide" would defend ESL in the same breath (I've seen some even defend the Native American schools).
What's even better is that the language learning programs in China aren't madatory anymore, just highly promoted.
Warning: Shitty google translate below
As China grows stronger, more and more foreigners begin to learn Chinese traditional culture and learn to speak "Chinese". As a Chinese, many of us Uyghurs do not speak Mandarin, and are not ashamed or disapproving. Isn't this funny? Isn't this worth our thoughts?
...
Having worked at the grassroots level for many years, I have deeply experienced the convenience of being able to speak Mandarin to my work. In work and life, I always tell myself subconsciously, try my best to communicate with colleagues and relatives in Mandarin. As the current "de-radicalization" work is in full swing, I have strengthened my confidence in speaking Mandarin well. However, besides me, there are many cadres and employees of ethnic minorities who, as public officials, cannot communicate fluently in Chinese. At work, due to obstacles in speaking Mandarin, I can't help speaking in Uyghur. * National public officials are an outstanding class of Uyghurs who are knowledgeable and educated. Their words and deeds are related to the expectations of the masses and the orientation of their work, and they have an immeasurable social influence. To learn to use a language, you must have a good language environment. If national public officials can persist in "speaking the national language" in public and use Chinese to communicate and express, it will create a positive atmosphere for learning the national language, and then make the masses aware of the importance of learning the national language, which is bound to promote Uyghur The upsurge of national language learning.
...
Conversely, if public officials of the country cannot insist on "speaking the Mandarin" in public, then the masses will unknowingly weaken their enthusiasm for learning Mandarin, which is bound to cause a series of negative effects.
...
As a township civil servant, every time I watched the five-star red flag rise during the flag-raising ceremony on Monday, a deep patriotism surged in my heart. Whenever I raised my right fist and solemnly took an oath, I felt a strong sense of responsibility. All over the body. Every flag-raising ceremony is a "patriotism" education. Every time I see the bright five-star red flag fluttering in the wind, it strengthens my confidence in learning Mandarin.
...
Our public officials take the lead in learning and using Mandarin, which is spreading the positive energy of patriotism! Learning and using the country’s common spoken and written language is conducive to cultivating citizens’ patriotism, strengthening the "five identities", and enhancing the centripetal force and cohesion of the Chinese nation. It is the most basic requirement of patriotism for Uyghur cadres and the masses to learn the standard spoken and written language of the country. It is also a concrete manifestation of actively adapting to the new situation, keeping up with the new era, and embracing modernization. The traditional culture of the Chinese nation is the common spiritual wealth of our 56 nations. Only by mastering the national spoken and written language can we enhance our "cultural confidence", better resist the infiltration of religious extreme ideas, and better adapt to the development trend of the new era.
And in this editorial you will CLEARLY see...
checks notes
"an official party statement telling people they’re not patriotic if they speak their native language?"
if public officials of the country cannot insist on “speaking the Mandarin” in public, then the masses will unknowingly weaken their enthusiasm for learning Mandarin
Shouldn't politicians speak the language of their constituents so their constituents can understand them?
And what if the Uyghur officials need to communicate with other officials who don't speak Uyghur? There is such a thing as being BI- or Tri-lingual.
The whole point of this is Mandarin serves as the Lingua Franca of the greater Chinese union. There are many languages and dialects spoken across the country, and the largest commonality between those is Mandarin.
Then they should speak mandarin or hire an interpreter.
The point is that they're advocating politicians primarily speak a language their constituents don't, in order to encourage their constituents to become multilingual. It's paternalistic
It's explicitly not paternalistic? How is multilingualism restrictive?
It's an article by an ethnic Uyghur suggesting, in response to other articles, that if you love the country of China then we should also be working to consciously use the language in public to help elevate the perceived status of the Uyghur population in China.
It seems like it's mostly referring to public officials as well...
I don't know exactly how I feel about that as I don't even kind of have the cultural awareness and context, but it seems like an opinion piece and has nothing to do with "not allowing them to speak their own language" any more than the cultural faux pas similar to Spanish speakers in the US.
Copy and paste it into your browser
It's not a dead link. It's the internet archive. Holy shit.
It literally doesn't work what the fuck are you on about, "Wayback Machine has not archived that URL." motherfucker.
Such a weird hill to die on. "Link doesn't work" "STOP COPING BOOTLICKER"
Wow having mods delete what I say right in front of my eyes sure is a weird hill to die on
I click the link, "Wayback Machine has not archived that URL." I copy paste the link, "Wayback Machine has not archived that URL."
What am I coping with here, your inability to link your arguments?
Yeah because you're being needlessly hostile when the link doesn't work.
I'm literally just trying to tell you that your link is dead as dillinger, its fucking prince philip over here and you start telling me I'm coping with something and I literally am just telling you that Wayback Machine has not archived this URL like what am I supposed to do about it its your link.
https://i.imgur.com/I3DV1y4.png
No, here's where we go, "Wayback Machine has not archived that URL.".
Edit: since I cant actually argue with whatever you are trying to convey here, 5 seconds of googling is possibly the least convincing thing you can say in a debate about the most massively astroturfed subject that exists.
To your edit, 5 seconds of googling is the part calling you lazy and deliberately avoiding information you disagree with. The "official party document" part you managed to simply forget or pretend it didn't exist in the same sentence.
Hey look, the mods didn't instantly delete what you said despite being twice as hostile with your MF
Wonder what that's about
Yeah cause I was responding to you out of the blue telling me that I'm just coping when your link objectively didn't work and you decided to whine like a baby and throw insult instead of simply fixing the link like two other people have done now, btw your take on the link is just inventing shit, it doesnt say anything about people not speaking their own language, just promoting the learning and speaking of Mandarin as a unifying patriotic action, which also helps improve peoples opportunities and ease of travel around China.
Wouldn't have personally banned him but jesus fuck, way to be a dickhead about basic linking of your argument, and then acting like google translating a complex ass language is solid information, AND THEN ALSO HAVING THE GOOGLE TRANSLATE OF THE LINK NOT SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENT.
They were having the same impact as a FUD imperialist regardless of whether they meant to or not.
If you can't engage someone in good faith, without "YOURE COPING" (for no reason) etc. then you have no right being here. That sort of hostility is unproductive, doesn't add anything to the argument and just makes the site worse.
perm-ban speedrun
Viru Valge - Ready.
Semechki - Ready.
Comrade Hao's music videos - Ready.
Sources - Ready.
:xi-shining:
