:azan:
Though he did clarify they don't have a worse police state than the US. He just both-sides it.
Edit - It's a law of hexbear that every discussion must turn into a struggle session. Especially if the discussion involves China.
:azan:
Though he did clarify they don't have a worse police state than the US. He just both-sides it.
Edit - It's a law of hexbear that every discussion must turn into a struggle session. Especially if the discussion involves China.
ACAB means ACAB
Police, like the state, have a class aspect to them, police in a proletarian state are different from those in a bourgeoise state.
Is China a proletarian state or a capitalist state in transition?
I'd argue that much of the "China Bad" rhetoric is purely projection by Westerners who can't conceive of a police force less draconian and brutal as it's own.
But, like, even Carl Xha periodically complains about the reactionary state of Chinese censorship. And then there's the various blue laws and nacro-laws common to nearly every post industrial state.
Whatever may be said of its peers, China certainly isn't the model for a leftist community defense force.
My take on China is that it's a proletarian state in a primarily capitalist system, which means that Chinas police and state as a whole are not fully proletarian in character due to the fact that the bourgeoise has a certain degree of influence it's interests are reflected in law and police.
But at the same time its obviously and meaningfully proletarian too and not solely dedicated to bourgeoise interests, as demonstrated by the crackdowns on corruption and flat out executions of the very most corrupt who take bribes or do other financial crime regardless of their wealth.
I think that still kinda remains to be seen. It is definitely not dedicated to western bourgeoisie interests. Being anti-colonial is necessary but not sufficient.
I have a hard time judging Chinese policing from behind a language barrier and a media barrier and a geographic barrier, so I could be wrong about everything. But it seems as though the state is more in line with FDR-Era state capitalism than a serious Marxist government.
To me at least, its activities in breaking up monopolies and the business empires of corrupt billionaires as well as flat out executing those who commit crimes shows that its not just hostile towards the western bourgeoise, but that it has its national bourgeoise on an increasingly tight leash, which is essential for the development of China. But I also understand if some people feel sceptical still that its differences point to a proletarian state, I guess it will just have to be seen how they continue onwards towards the 2050 date.
no.
modern police are an invention of capitalism. they serve to protect private property. a proletarian state doesn't have private property, and there would be no need to have a gang to protect it.
it sucks that china adopted the idea in the first place, and hopefully as they grow towards socialism they'll start to phase it out and replace it with something more inline with a community neighborhood watch.
To me this just sounds like deciding that the term police has a fixed absolute definition and that you have to change the name to something more complicated to make it good and acceptable under communism, theres no reason you can't just have a socialist/communist police force thats different from bourgeoise police forces, also theres the fact that a neighboorhood watch, while good for most crimes, is limited in scope and ability and theres still gonna be a use and need for an overarching force that can handle specialized issues and crimes that span more than just a community.
it's not changing the fucking name, it's literal replacement with something better. when people call to 'abolish the police' they call to abolish the fucked up system of an armed group of thugs that have impunity to law. cuba has 8 million people in their fucking neighborhood watch, and yes they still have a smaller force that handles specialized issues, but the fact that 80 percent of their population takes place in their neighborhood watch is what keeps their country the way it is, and is far more aligned with the idea of communism than having anything comparable to the police in the US.
Proletarian state can still have things that are in short supply that should be distributed according to the principles of common proletarian good. Some asshole stealing communal property might be less the ideal.
There are also non-property crimes, like crimes of passion and shit.
Yeah, a neighborhood watch isn't gonna be able to solve certain shit like a serial killer going around multiple places like Chikatilo, simply because you can't equip every neighborhood watch with extensive education in spotting patterns and building a profile, nor can you equip them all with forensic laboratories to analyse evidence(In theory you could but it's far less effective than having specialized forces who cover much larger areas but less overall crimes).
Do you have evidence that China's police are bad?
all cops are bastards.
Ian Miles Cheong, retweeted by Joe Rogan, lmao.
Edit: To elaborate, if the best source for this you can find is a nazi who still cares about gamergate deeply, retweeted by the most gullible far right podcaster on planet earth, I'm not gonna take this very seriously as evidence of anything and neither should anyone else.
What is the context of this video? How do I know this is "chinese police"? It's posted on a YouTube channel that seems to be exclusively MMA news?
the context of the video is obvious if you watch it. they're wearing chinese police uniforms and speaking chinese and using tiger chairs, which are used widely in china.
i critically support china because they are making leaps and bounds in terms of ending poverty and expanding communism, but a cops a cop, those chairs are fucked, and that you get put in one for criticizing cops on the internet is pretty fucked up.
ignore the chud pretending to be a news anchor and just watch the footage of the police in china, acting pretty much just like american cops. beating the shit out of people.
fuck cops everywhere.
Like a couple 10 second clips of cops punching someone isn't "cops in this country are violent and irredeemable". People elsewhere have pointed out that cops in China don't carry guns either. I get the point that there are cops in China that are just like American cops, who are abusive psychos but is there any evidence its a widespread systemic thing like it is in the US?
cops in every country are violent and irredeemable. and chinese cops have carried guns since like 2014.
It sounds like it's only some officers that have guns. I don't think it's a standard thing still.
either way, i just provided you with a video where someone was put into one of those chairs for even criticizing cops, the idea that there's going to be a massive amount of footage of their abuse is illogical, but there's enough to provide a look at the similarities between our cops and theirs. but the point being is that a cop by definition is a bastard. a hammer and sickle isn't going to change that. there needs to be international police reform and community policing/police elections, and their actions need to be open to citizen review in every single country. we can strive towards communism, but if we're going to empower/enable this kind of shit while striving towards it, then we're still living in fear of our governments.
china's great in a lot of ways, but piker's take that china is a police state much like the US is legitimate.
edit: cops by number in china probably have far less murders, but they are still state sanctioned thugs, and that's just something that comes with a hierarchical system of policing authority, it's easily open to abuse.
China Uncensored is literally Falun Gong, like I said with the other clip if this is the best you have then at best you're gullible as fuck and at worst you're flat out trying to spread anticommunism on this site.
Like disguising this shit as "Oh its just a chud news anchor" is flat out maliciously trying to obscure the fact that you linked a literal far right cult as your evidence.
Edit: Also "context is obvious if you watch the video" is not a real answer when someone asks for more evidence, police uniforms aren't some kind of secret garment that is locked up in safes whenever not in use, nor is "these are widely used in China" evidence either except that the video is from China, thats like filming a video of waterboarding and saying that because the US does waterboarding, this is evidence of US waterboarding in this video. Its a fucking weird video for many reasons and your dismissal of peoples concern is suspicious as fuck, especially when paired with the fact that both the video above and the one in your comment here are literally from extreme far right sources.
dude you're full of shit. as i said, ignroe the chud, but the fucking videos of cops literally dropping a woman to the ground by her neck is legitimate video. if you try to doubt it you're a fucking bootlicker
You can't just fucking link literal far right sources and say "Oh ignore the chud", am I gonna fucking link you stormfront and say "Oh all the nazi shit doesnt matter just watch their evidence"?
If you cant find anyone better that has acknowledged this that says a fucking lot about the shit you are trying to claim is fact and real.
i put up three different videos from three different sources of cops being cops. you definitely sound like a fuckin bootlicker.
Yeah lemme go get it.
QED ACAB
Are they as bad as US police? Probably not. Are they police? ACAB.